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Old 10-08-2013, 03:24 PM #21
King_ King_ is offline
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Originally Posted by New England View Post
ali fought bums?

[Link View Has Been Removed. Click Here To Unlock This Content.]
please actually look at his resume.

he fought contenders / champions four times a year on several occasions. keep in mind that he fought in the greatest HW era of all time, and wladimir fights in the worst.
I didn't say he only fought bums.

Read my last post on page 2. Wlad fought everyone there was to fight. Neither you or I can say that Jean-Pierre Coopman is a better opponent then or would beat Haye/Byrd/Chagaev/Povetkin.

Last edited by King_; 10-08-2013 at 03:27 PM.
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Old 10-08-2013, 03:25 PM #22
bojangles1987 bojangles1987 is offline
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I don't have a list, and I can say with absolute certainty that there are at least 100 fighters who are greater than Wladimir Klitschko.
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Old 10-08-2013, 03:26 PM #23
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Originally Posted by BattlingNelson View Post
You wont find ten posters who has made a top 100 Larry.
He might struggle to find 10 posters who know of 100 boxers never mind rank the 100 best.
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Old 10-08-2013, 03:56 PM #24
BattlingNelson BattlingNelson is offline
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Originally Posted by New England View Post
no, but you can compare him with other "consensus" top 100 types.
And who are these 'consensus' top 100 guys?


But ok, let me try to reason where Wlad might be ranked without me having a specific list.

I would say Wlad is about no. 10 all time at HW.

Lets go through the original remaining 7 divisions in a rather superficial manner trying to establish who's better than the no. 10 at HW.

LHW is not as deep as HW. Lets say the top 6.

MW is deep. Lets say 15.

WW is deeper. Lets say 18.

LW is the deepest division. Make it 20 here.

FW well I'm not super familiar with midgets, so the estimate now gets even more risky. Lets say 15.

BW. 8.

FlyW. 5.

So the original divisions produces 9+6+15+20+15+8+5 = 78 fighters better than the no. 10 HW.

So if one can find 22 fighters in the junior divisions of cruiser, SMW, JMW, SLW, SFW, SBW, SflyW, JflyW meaning an average of less than 3 Per division, you'll have the cutoff.

In conclusion: Wlad Klitschko will be close to no. 100 all time. Probably around no. 90.

Last edited by BattlingNelson; 10-08-2013 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 10-08-2013, 04:06 PM #25
beez721 beez721 is offline
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Originally Posted by bojangles1987 View Post
I don't have a list, and I can say with absolute certainty that there are at least 100 fighters who are greater than Wladimir Klitschko.
I would love to see your top 30 or 40 let alone 100. unless thats all weight classes

Last edited by beez721; 10-08-2013 at 04:09 PM.
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Old 10-08-2013, 04:09 PM #26
bojangles1987 bojangles1987 is offline
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Originally Posted by beez721 View Post
I would love to see your top 30 or 40 let alone 100
I don't keep lists. I don't claim to know careers of all the old greats so well that I can rank them correctly. But I could easily name 100 fighters greater than Wlad.
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Old 10-08-2013, 04:15 PM #27
beez721 beez721 is offline
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Originally Posted by bojangles1987 View Post
I don't keep lists. I don't claim to know careers of all the old greats so well that I can rank them correctly. But I could easily name 100 fighters greater than Wlad.
thought at first you meant just at heavyweight. Im assuming you mean all weight classes which is alot more understandable
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Old 10-08-2013, 04:29 PM #28
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Post and discuss
He's not the right color nor is he American. -1000 points off the greatness scale for me.
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Old 10-08-2013, 04:46 PM #29
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Originally Posted by BattlingNelson View Post
And who are these 'consensus' top 100 guys?


But ok, let me try to reason where Wlad might be ranked without me having a specific list.

I would say Wlad is about no. 10 all time at HW.

Lets go through the original remaining 7 divisions in a rather superficial manner trying to establish who's better than the no. 10 at HW.

LHW is not as deep as HW. Lets say the top 6.

MW is deep. Lets say 15.

WW is deeper. Lets say 18.

LW is the deepest division. Make it 20 here.

FW well I'm not super familiar with midgets, so the estimate now gets even more risky. Lets say 15.

BW. 8.

FlyW. 5.

So the original divisions produces 9+6+15+20+15+8+5 = 78 fighters better than the no. 10 HW.

So if one can find 22 fighters in the junior divisions of cruiser, SMW, JMW, SLW, SFW, SBW, SflyW, JflyW meaning an average of less than 3 Per division, you'll have the cutoff.

In conclusion: Wlad Klitschko will be close to no. 100 all time. Probably around no. 90.

i have the book in storage right now, but bert sugar had a very entertaining and informative take on his top 100. works similar to that one aren't a set in stone top 100, but you get an idea of who belongs and who does not when you look through a few of them, in addition to having knowledge of the eras and the backgrounds of the fighters.
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Old 10-08-2013, 04:50 PM #30
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Originally Posted by King- View Post
Say what? Wlad beat Haye, Povetkin, Ibragimov, Chagaev, Byrd. All of the best possible opponents- champions, undefeated champions, etc.. possible from his era. He cleaned the whole division against everyone who was a deserving challenger. I said competition and resume aside beecause thats what people like to criticize..

It's not up to you or me to determing whether David Haye or Ruslan Chagaev were worthy title challengers. But the fact of the matter is those are the guys who were champs and top fighters in Wlads era and he took them out with ease. You gonna say those guys aren't good fighters? Fair enough, that's your opinion..... but what you CAN'T say is how they would fare against the challengers of past ATG HW champions...

You cant say Buster Douglas would beat Povetkin. You can't say Billy Conn or Buddy Baer could beat Chagaev or Haye. Just like I can't say Haye or Chageav would beat Conn or Baer, etc.. That's all fantasy matchmaking and opinion/personal bias.

Comparing Wlad and John is laughable. Chris John didn't or hasnt cleaned out his division nor has he fought every possible legit title challenger/opponent there is. Wlad faced any and everyone who was there for him. And like I said, it's not up to me or you to say if Povetkin, Haye or Byrd are better or worse then whoever any other ATG fought. The fact of the matter is every single ATG HW fought just as many if not more 'bums" then Wlad has fought.

History says Haye, Ibragimov, Chagaev and Povetkin are excellent wins for Wlad. That's all that matters. How he won, whether it was boring or not and how you subjectively feel about whether those guys can compare to past ATG opponents does not matter. Hell for all we know, David Haye could of went undefeated against Joe Louis' resume. We just don't know. That's why all that fantasy **** and "if he would of been in this era' doesn't matter. Sorry
I liked your post and many of the things you noted are very accurate in your analysis. but a couple fo things..... The reason Chris John fights mostly in Asia is because it isn't worth it forhim to travel to America. He makes more money there. He fights in japan and Australia etc. He came to the US when the Americans believed that they had someone to beat him in Rocky Juarez. He got a draw which was almost a barefaced robbery. He then made sure in an immediate overwhelming return fight. He fought Marquez when Marquez travelled to Indonesia. And he gave him a good beating. I don't mean that he beat him up, but according to the 2 Western journalists who were there-one from RING- he won easily. According to Marquez he was robbed, but that's the same whine he uses for every defeat he's had.

Then you ruined it for me completely when you said "could of went". How can a very literate person make such egregious mistakes....... SHEER LAZINESS.
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