OFFICIAL: UFC is in hell thread

[RedZmaja]

I don't think you know what a fad is if you legit think a whole sport people compete in around the globe now just like boxing is a fad. There was a 50k crowd in Poland for a MMA minor league card a couple months back. There are a several Russian & ex-Soviet MMA leagues. There are MMA gyms all over the world.

If anything those promotions in Eastern Europe doing well will just accelerate the demise of MMA because due to those other promotions the UFC can't get the best global talent anymore.

For example that Nikita Krylov guy who was a really solid prospect for MMA standards and won a lot of fights in the UFC decided that he will rather fight in Russia now because he doesn't like to travel to USA all the time and will actually make more money in Russia where he can have his sponsors and everything.

Polish fighters who fight in local promotions that you speak of can actually get more hype and money behind them than if they test the unknown in the UFC.

The problem with MMA is that it doesn't have sanctioning bodies like boxing has and thus has no legitimate competitive format, and it doesn't have any cultural influence, history or prestige either. It depends entirely on private promotions which are basically glorified in-house tournaments. I mean, the UFC never co-promotes and those guys only fight each other to get an artificial belt given out by their promoter. This is all fine if you have all the top fighters in the UFC but this isn't the case anymore. Mousasi left, Rory left, Askren and Minakov never signed in the first place...

Once other organizations over the globe start acquiring MMA talent the UFC, Bellator, KSW, M1, One FC etc. will be just like boxing promotions and it will be impossible to make certain fights and you'd have all the negative stuff from boxing in MMA as well. The difference between MMA and boxing is that MMA doesn't even have the ABC belts and sanctioning bodies to keep the things together and force the promotions to cooperate. I think MMA will end up like kickboxing and muay thai with millions of different plastic belts and people will look at 2005-2015 UFC era just like they look at the golden era of K1 kickboxing right now.

[Eff Pandas]

If anything those promotions in Eastern Europe doing well will just accelerate the demise of MMA because right now the UFC can't get the best global talent anymore.

For example the Nikita Krylov guy who was a really solid prospect for MMA standards and won a lot of fights in the UFC decided that he will rather fight in Russia now because he doesn't like to travel to USA all the time and will actually make more money in Russia where he can have his sponsors and everything.

Polish fighters who fight in local promotions that you speak of can actually get more hype and money behind them than if they test the unknown in the UFC.

The problem with MMA is that it doesn't have sanctioning bodies like boxing has and thus has no legitimate competitive format, and it doesn't have any cultural influence, history or prestige either. It depends entirely on private promotions which are basically glorified in-house tournaments. I mean, the UFC never co-promotes and those guys only fight each other to get an artificial belt given out by their promoter. This is all fine if you have all the top fighters in the UFC but this isn't the case anymore. Mousasi left, Rory left, Askren and Minakov never signed in the first place...

Once other organizations over the globe start acquiring MMA talent the UFC, Bellator, KSW, M1, One FC etc. will be just like boxing promotions and it will be impossible to make certain fights. The difference between MMA and boxing is that MMA doesn't even have the ABC belts. I think MMA will end up like kickboxing and muay thai with millions of different plastic belts.

There isn't going to be a "demise to MMA" lol. The more MMA spreads out, which its doing every year, the more MMA becomes locked into cultures all over the globe. MMA training is becoming a way of life for many ordinary people & its only going to expand. The sport itself is going nowhere along as the concept of sport is alive.

If you were to say the branching out of MMA across countries could threaten or end the UFC I might be more inclined to agree with you there or at least see your viewpoint on it hurting the UFC as I believe the more viable MMA marketplaces in the world the less the strength the UFC has. But Mixed Martial Arts is like boxing or baseball or virtually any sport a decent enough size of people care about for it to be in the sports news as much as MMA is.

For the life of me I don't get what you people are thinking who think MMA isn't a THING thats here to stay during our life times & beyond at this point unless you are just a hater of the sport & its wishful thinking for some weird reason or you think MMA being around hurts boxings or something like that.

[RedZmaja]

UFC fighters only get popular if they act like pro wrestlers. It doesn't matter how skilled a UFC fighter is, they can't draw unless they act like an entertainer.

Yep. If you're not an English-speaking entertaining guy (for Americans) that can become a draw you'll never get any real opportunities in the UFC. It is a totally American-oriented "sport" and it will never attract real global talent.

The only ones who get paid in the UFC are the champions but if you're not marketable you need to get like 7 straight wins together before even getting near a title shot.

Also, most of the events are in the USA, it sucks for European fighters having to travel all the time and adjust their training camps to fight at 3AM in a country where no one gives a **** about them only to earn some 20k paycheck. No chance to have your own sponsors either.

For an European or Asian fighter it's much better to be a boxer fighting in your own country where local companies sponsor you and local people support you and you have a lot more leverage and freedom. Hell, even smashing cans in some local bush league MMA promotion is better than going over to the UFC.

I don't see why any talented athlete would even want to consider MMA.

[RedZmaja]

There isn't going to be a "demise to MMA" lol. The more MMA spreads out, which its doing every year, the more MMA becomes locked into cultures all over the globe. MMA training is becoming a way of life for many ordinary people & its only going to expand. The sport itself is going nowhere along as the concept of sport is alive.

A lot of people train kickboxing and it's more culturally acceptable and recognizable than MMA, yet how is kickboxing doing as a sport right now? Not good isn't it?

The thing is that the competitive structure of MMA as a sport doesn't exist and the entire sport relies solely on having one big and successful promotion like the UFC that can keep the majority of talent together and organize big shows. If the UFC crumbles then MMA goes down with it and fades into obscurity. It was the same thing with K1 and kickboxing. People used to talk how it's going to overtake boxing and what not but it just faded away.

[Eff Pandas]

A lot of people train kickboxing and it's more culturally acceptable and recognizable than MMA, yet how is kickboxing doing as a sport right now? Not good isn't it?

The thing is that the competitive structure of MMA as a sport doesn't exist and the entire sport relies solely on having one big and successful promotion like the UFC that can keep the majority of talent together and organize big shows. If the UFC crumbles then MMA goes down with it and fades into obscurity. It was the same thing with K1 and kickboxing. People used to talk how it's going to overtake boxing and what not but it just faded away.

Yea but I mean logically what sport has just f#cking ended any damn way lol. I don't even grasp the concept of the demise of a sport.

I mean I guess there were some crazy ass Indian "sports" back in the pre-US days of the land I reside on where they'd use human heads & sh^t maybe & the entire losing squad would be killed after a "game" & now that "sport" doesn't exist. But I doubt that crazy mfer sport just ended on a dime. It probably took forever before that got ousted from Indian culture.

MMA isn't going any f#cking where & its a legit crazy thing to suggest in my eyes. Or feel free to give me an example of some sport thats been as or more popular as MMA that just f#cking isn't here anymore?

[Drunken Cat]

A lot of people train kickboxing and it's more culturally acceptable and recognizable than MMA, yet how is kickboxing doing as a sport right now? Not good isn't it?

The thing is that the competitive structure of MMA as a sport doesn't exist and the entire sport relies solely on having one big and successful promotion like the UFC that can keep the majority of talent together and organize big shows. If the UFC crumbles then MMA goes down with it and fades into obscurity. It was the same thing with K1 and kickboxing. People used to talk how it's going to overtake boxing and what not but it just faded away.

Actually, from both experience and observation, MMA is much more relatable than kickboxing.

Kickboxing has been around for a long time, and continues to be around, and to flourish; as a nitch sport.

Moreover, kickboxing produces a lot of knockout. There are many punch drunk ex-kickboxers walking around, who never made much money and never had much fame.

One of the most important functions of MMA though has probably been to provide a professional outlet for grapplers, and other martial artists, from sports without professional alternatives.

American wrestlers is as clear an example as you can get.

You see the same thing with judoka, jiu jitsu athletes, tae kwon do guys in Korea, Mongolian wrestlers, Japanese traditional karate fighters, past-prime Muay Thai fighters, Chinese Sanda fighters, even wushu athletes (Kung Fu gymnastics).

[RedZmaja]

Just watched the main event Amanda Nunes vs Valentina Shevchenko... Man this WMMA crap the UFC forces its fans to watch is complete garbage and one of the reasons why I can't take UFC seriously. The entire fight was two girls just standing in front of each other, no footwork, no head movement, no feints, nothing... Just pitty patter kicks and telegraphed combos out of nowhere without really committing to punches. It was like watching a light sparring session. It's ridiculous that this kind of fights headline PPVs. It's crazy what their hype machine can do.

[Anthony342]

GSP is the best selling UFC fighter in history. He's about the most respectful guy in the UFC & maybe all of combat sports.

Buy yea talking sh^t gets you attention thats why Floyd, Ali & Jack Johnson are among the most popular boxers with drawing fans, if to watch them lose, & selling tickets, closed circuit & PPV, in boxing history.

Not sure how that'd make MMA a fad either way doe.

That's the dumbest argument I've ever heard against MMA. People that claim that need to actually look up the word fad. The UFC has been around for 24 years now. That's not a fad. Now if it went out of business the first year or less, that would've been a fad. The Macarena and Whoomp There It Is were fads, mixed martial arts is not. Hell, it was being done before the UFC with the fights being called No Holds Barred or Vale Tudo in Brazil and Pankration, which combines boxing and wrestling goes back to Ancient Greece FFS. Now if one wants to claim a downtrend, that could be argued.

[Anthony342]

If you haven't done so, seriously check out Rizin; OneFC; M-1.

In my opinion, high technical skill is more commonly on display.

I think it has much to do with styles of fighting. A lot of M-1 guys come from high-level Sambo/judo backgrounds, and thus are deeply schooled in technique. Likewise for Japanese fighters, with respect to judo, traditional Japanese martial arts, and catch-as-catch-can wrestling (which is largely derived from Japanese pro wrestling, which often features more realistic matches, utilizing catch wrestling).

In OneFC, there are some very high-level Muay Thai strikers making their way through the rankings. It has also established itself as a sizable promotion, able to attract a lot of talent from all over.

UFC still has plenty of technical fights, but it can be less common.

Honorable mention for Ganryujima.

One seems to have the best rules as well, with some of the old Pride rules, except they allow elbows to the face on the ground, but eliminated stomps to the head, but still allow any kicks or knees to the head of even a downed opponent, so none of that you can't hit the guy in the face because he has a hand on the ground or is on one knee crap you sometimes see in UFC fights.

[Anthony342]

I do agree that MMA needs to cross promote to come up with a truly undisputed champion. The thing that seems to make owners wary is years ago when the UFC owners decided to enter Chuck Liddell in a Pride tournament and nearly got his head taken off by Rampage and the owners probably felt like they had somehow lost face, but in the long run, that's a good thing. Hell, that's why Rorion Gracie and Art Davie started the UFC in 1993, so that his brother Royce and any other fighters of any style from anywhere in the world could truly test themselves. Ran Van Clief, The Black Dragon, entering the UFC tournament in UFC 4 and then endorsing it also helped early on, mentioning fighters should try what was then called Ultimate Fighting to truly test themselves. But now the question is, how can one truly test themselves when they don't get to fight every available opponent in their weight class. They don't, really and that's the only thing really limiting the sport these days. Even pro wrestling did those Super Clash shows back in the day, where they had wrestlers from say AWA working matches with people from World Class, some NWZ territory or even GLOW. Now sure, not too many cats wanted to job cleanly, but in MMA, it's real competition so there usually has to be a winner, unless there's a draw or no contest. This needs to happen for these men and women to really test themselves.