Just another post

[Ben Bolt]

In The Ring magazine Nov. issue, author/journalist Thomas Hauser refers to Daniel Mendoza’s memoirs and “some thoughts [of Mendoza, which] are eternal”.
Mendoza, bare knuckle champion 1792-95, wrote: “A knowledge of the art of pugilism can never be acquired by theory alone.”
Hauser’s reflection on Mendoza’s words are that “those of us who sit on the easy side of the ropes should remember that pearl of wisdom”.
Hear, hear.

Another page also tells a funny quote by Terry Downes, world middleweight champ 1961-62.
Downes had had a successful amateur career, so in his only 3rd fight as a pro, he was believed to be ready for Dick Tiger, who at the time had 28 fights under his belt.
Downes was outclassed and halted. After the fight, Downes was asked who he’d like to fight next. His reply: “The bastard who made this match!”

[billeau2]

In The Ring magazine Nov. issue, author/journalist Thomas Hauser refers to Daniel Mendoza’s memoirs and “some thoughts [of Mendoza, which] are eternal”.
Mendoza, bare knuckle champion 1792-95, wrote: “A knowledge of the art of pugilism can never be acquired by theory alone.”
Hauser’s reflection on Mendoza’s words are that “those of us who sit on the easy side of the ropes should remember that pearl of wisdom”.
Hear, hear.

Another page also tells a funny quote by Terry Downes, world middleweight champ 1961-62.
Downes had had a successful amateur career, so in his only 3rd fight as a pro, he was believed to be ready for Dick Tiger, who at the time had 28 fights under his belt.
Downes was outclassed and halted. After the fight, Downes was asked who he’d like to fight next. His reply: “The bastard who made this match!”

Ha ha nice.. Mendoza...an interesting character. I believe he was a jew and there were a couple of Spanish Jews sephardam that were active in the very early boxing days, along with the incomparable Jem mace. The thing that distinguished these Jewish fighters was the ability to create methods and theories... and when we look at Spain we see a very active fighting tradition involving Seville steel, vis a vis swords.

Sephardum at times were part of Spanish society and were exposed to a very practical form of swordsmanship...Spanish work involves walking the person down, and timing work, as opposed to the big lunging positions of the GErman school of fencing. I think these men like Mendoza took some of this theory and tradition and applied it in the ring and were very succesful.

[OctoberRed]

In The Ring magazine Nov. issue, author/journalist Thomas Hauser refers to Daniel Mendoza’s memoirs and “some thoughts [of Mendoza, which] are eternal”.
Mendoza, bare knuckle champion 1792-95, wrote: “A knowledge of the art of pugilism can never be acquired by theory alone.”
Hauser’s reflection on Mendoza’s words are that “those of us who sit on the easy side of the ropes should remember that pearl of wisdom”.
Hear, hear.

Another page also tells a funny quote by Terry Downes, world middleweight champ 1961-62.
Downes had had a successful amateur career, so in his only 3rd fight as a pro, he was believed to be ready for Dick Tiger, who at the time had 28 fights under his belt.
Downes was outclassed and halted. After the fight, Downes was asked who he’d like to fight next. His reply: “The bastard who made this match!”

I was never aware that Hauser even wrote for The Ring, especially way back then.

[Ben Bolt]

Ha ha nice.. Mendoza...an interesting character. I believe he was a jew and there were a couple of Spanish Jews sephardam that were active in the very early boxing days, along with the incomparable Jem mace. The thing that distinguished these Jewish fighters was the ability to create methods and theories... and when we look at Spain we see a very active fighting tradition involving Seville steel, vis a vis swords.

Sephardum at times were part of Spanish society and were exposed to a very practical form of swordsmanship...Spanish work involves walking the person down, and timing work, as opposed to the big lunging positions of the GErman school of fencing. I think these men like Mendoza took some of this theory and tradition and applied it in the ring and were very succesful.

I wasn’t aware of the different traditions of fencing, so googled and found it quite interesting. Live and learn.

[billeau2]

I wasn’t aware of the different traditions of fencing, so googled and found it quite interesting. Live and learn.

Hey Ben! Good for you! I wish more people had that attitude. As a 52 year old man with a high IQ who would run through every library as a kid, starving for knowledge about things... And seeing the wonderful things my sons, and other kids, have to draw upon... like Wikipedia, Google, the internet, I shake my head when someone can't be bothered to find out about something that interests them. Some of the stuff is fascinating.

Lichner (probably spelling it wrong) was sort of a wellspring for German fencing... Germany had the strongest and most intractable feudal system in Europe, it was the last to change and mantained, vestigially at times, battle martial art systems. Lichner's manuscripts were found in parts, I don't think they were entirely ever recovered...the manuals used geometrical templates to dissect attack and defense positions of a blade.

Angles were important to know because of deception assumed when a position was taken that looked closer than it was to the adversary. Lichner, unlike a modern fencing school, (coming principally from the neoclassical italian rapier fencers) did not stay in a straight line to attack and parry, making his art combat effective and not merely a test of speed and reflexes.

If you look at movement templates in South East Asian arts, like Silat for example, they are similar in some respects to the fencers geometrical templates. italian fencers were very stylized and often did not do well against medieval and renaissance styled systems that used in close fighting and the "Bastard"sword. Interesting cognate: Perhaps the oldest continous classical battlefield art of Japan Takanuchi Ryu was based, had at its core, the use of the Kodachi, a word roughly the same length of the medieval bastard sword, and both systems emphasized closing distance and cutting at grappling range. The Kodachi was used to behead, the bastard sword, often to pommel the person and hack them to death.

Meanwhile the Spanairds who went all over the place were exposed to many fighting systems, including those of the indigenous Mesoamericans who also seemed to like to get up close and personal. The conquistadors had to have a way of maintaning distance when fighting, especially when fighting pirates on a ship, where there were many dangerous oar locks and other bad places to step.

If one looks at Spanish styles, the person walks, moves naturally and establishes a rhythm that can be broken, accentuated, as conditions dictate. Later Spanish bladework is very advanced, including the addition of Japanese techniques learned... Kashori Shinto Ryu particularly actually has as part of its curriculum, techniques learned from spanish fencing, and vice versa.

Perhaps the best feature of the Spanish system is how earily it adapts to different weapons. Eventually even the Moro Philipino blade techniques make an appearance and the footwork works out just fine because the moro taught the art as a dance initially.....dancing and walking, both natural ways to move.