How Hard Was Robinson's Punch?

[The Old LefHook]

They were the readings the machine took, whether it fits in with a particular perspective or not is something else.

It has to be a printing error. In fact, I guarantee it. F=MA, which means if Robby's speed is half that of Fullmer's, then he has to have more than twice the mass to still punch harder than Fullmer. I know you tried to look up something, which is commendable, but what you have looked up is a mistake. The obvious truth is that Robinson's punches were not only harder than Fullmer's, they were significantly faster as well.

[joeandthebums]

It has to be a printing error. In fact, I guarantee it. F=MA, which means if Robby's speed is half that of Fullmer's, then he has to have more than twice the mass to still punch harder than Fullmer. I know you tried to look up something, which is commendable, but what you have looked up is a mistake. The obvious truth is that Robinson's punches were not only harder than Fullmer's, they were significantly faster as well.

Wow. Not sure how to respond positively to that, other than just wow...

Full text of article below.

Electronic Devices Predict Fullmer Will Beat Robinson

(The speed and power of the punching of middleweight champion Ray Robinson and challenger Gene Fullmer were tested electronically by a combination of devices specially created for the task by the Lavoie Laboratories of Morganville, N.J. In the following story, Stephen D. Lavoie, an outstanding engineer in the field of radar and electronics who had a brief pro boxing career, picks the winner on the basis of the tests.)

In this world of automation, super jets, guided missiles and satellites, among other miracles of the electronic age, engineering and science have reached a point of near perfection. Instruments nobody ever dreamed of are measuring and calibrating things nobody ever thought could be accomplished to an astounding degree of speed and accuracy.

It was with this thought in mind that we created a system of instruments to measure the speed and power in the punches of Sugar Ray Robinson and Gene Fullmer, who are fighting for the world middleweight championship in Madison Square Garden tonight.

The results of the tests, made on Dec. 18, with Fullmer, and on Dec. 19, with Robinson, are, of course, not entirely conclusive on the outcome of the fight. But scientifically and electronically speaking, with human factors taken into consideration, the "Punchoscope” or "Punchograph,” as they are calling our measuring devices, tell to a great extent not only an interesting story but also a fairly true one.

Electronically, Gene Fullmer will be the new middleweight champion of the world!

The machines cannot lie on basic principles. The oscilloscope, which is used by the American services in nine mis* sile programs and in one satellite project, is the finest measuring device in the world. The intervalometer measures the time interval and the accelerometer the speed and impact. These figures were translated into miies per hour and pounds of force. The entire system was triggered by a photo-electric cell attached to the regulation heavy punching bag which was used as the striking surface. The punches tested on the bag were a standard right cross, first with eight ounce gloves, then the six-ounce gloves that will be used in the fight; and a left jab with sixes only.

With six ounce gloves Fullmer threw a right cross at .a speed of 30.4 miles per hour with a force of 1,260 pounds. Robinson delivered the same punch with a speed of 15.2 miles per hour and an impact of 1500 pounds — 240 pounds harder but with only half the speed of Fullmer. Fullmer's left jab, more of a semi-hook, traveled 17 miles per hour, faster even than Robinson’s right cross, with a force of 1,035 pounds.

Robinson, using a regulation jab, registered only 14 miles per hour and 460 pounds. With the right cross and eight ounce gloves, Fullmer punched at 22 miles per hour with 1150 pounds and Robinson, 19 miles per hour and 1,150 pounds.

Fighters can "kid” the human eye but they cannot play possum with electronics. In fighting, as in anything else, w'hat you give you get. The results paint a picture of the fight that will stand up to any boxing expert’s analysis. Fullmer punched the bag the way he fights, with everything he has.

Despite Robinson’s bigger punch with the one right cross, the overall picture shows Fullmer stronger, faster and certainly expending more energy. Fullmer’s speed, they tell me, was surprising in view’ of the fact that Robinson is considered one of the fastest punchers in boxing. The answer is simple.

Robinson punches with deliberation and his best punches come in combinations. Age, respective condition and individual talent naturally must be considered. Fullmer is 10 years younger than Robinson and it must be assumed that both will be in top physical condition for the fight. Robinson’s talents as a boxer and puncher must be, off the record, estimated as greater than Fullmer’s.

However, this could be balanced by age and determination for 15 rounds. Electronics says he cannot. Science and engineering predict a Fullmer victory.

[The Old LefHook]

Personally, I do not believe a word of it, any more than I believe that Ricky Hatton punched hard enough to fell large animals in their tracks. The clincher was the article positively stated that Fullmer was faster than Robinson. Recalibrate the equipment when it is giving known false readings.

I am quite interested in the subject of measring punches and the speed of them, I just cannot put any faith in this particular article. Sorry it offends you, but I do not believe everything I see in print.

[The Old LefHook]

Joe, in an effort to stave off your getting mad at me again, let me ask if you yourself do not find the numbers given in the article surprising and dubious? If it had said Fullmer's punch traveled at 30 mph and Robinson at 27, then I suppose I could have bought that small departure from the visual evidence. For Fullmer to travel at twice the speed, however, is a very suspicious statement to me, rendering it altogether unacceptable.

Always willing to reconsider, just do not know how with these numbers. I would love to see more tests, as if they made them all the time. I would like to see wide-scale testing on a large sample of boxers I was familiar with.

I did not see the reference to Robby needing to put his lef behind his back because of his natural tendency to feint. That was a fascinating anecdote..

Now just perhaps Robinson was throwing the looping right as usual and Fullmer was throwing his straight, and just perhaps the equipment did not take into account curvature. In conjunction with having to keep his left behind his back, this could have slowed Robinson's readings down so that he would appear slower than Gene.

Anyway, the whole idea of measuring these parameters is fascinating, even if I do have a hard time with these particular numbers.

[The Old LefHook]

Keep in mind those road signs that flash your own speed back at you. Recall that when heading for such a sign rounding a curve or that lies beyond or on a curve, the reading differs from that received once you have straightened out. This could be the resolution of those odd numbers in the article. It is about all I can think of to rectify the account. It seems reasonable. The machine was measuring the straight distance and the time it took, but Robinson's punches were traveling in a wide arc. Hence, the moving velocity of his wide punches was probably recorded inaccurately, though the time they took to reach the target was accurate.

[joeandthebums]

I did not see the reference to Robby needing to put his lef behind his back because of his natural tendency to feint. That was a fascinating anecdote.

Being flippant; this article states Robinson grinned, perhaps that doesn't fit in with a particular portrayal of him so can also be dismissed outright.

I am not making the case that every written word should 100% be took as whole truth, yes in some incidents it should be used as a piece to build a larger picture, dependent on subject matter but unfortunately on this forum very little in the way of information (facts) are presented only opinions.

When information is injected into these conversations it typically seems to receive a response similar to the one which you gave when it does not align with an already established opinion.

[The Old LefHook]

Being flippant; this article states Robinson grinned, perhaps that doesn't fit in with a particular portrayal of him so can also be dismissed outright.

I am not making the case that every written word should 100% be took as whole truth, yes in some incidents it should be used as a piece to build a larger picture, dependent on subject matter but unfortunately on this forum very little in the way of information (facts) are presented only opinions.

When information is injected into these conversations it typically seems to receive a response similar to the one which you gave when it does not align with an already established opinion.

Simply amazing that Robinson could not resist the feint with the lef even with it tucked behind his back.

I believe the probable curvature in Ray's right is likely responsible for the slower time of his punch. That would seem to be the only thing which can explain it, since I am pretty sure Robinson was faster than Fullmer. Yes, that is a preconception all right. Pretty hard to resist that one.

[The Old LefHook]

Below is a link to an article that accomodated the measuring of Hatton's punch. No mention of his punch having enough force to fell a big animal. That must have been another article. I do not believe I am confusing it with the time Duran actually KO'd a bull. Could be, though.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6228040.stml

[The Old LefHook]

Here is one on Tyson and Bruno.

https://www.thrillist.com/culture/ho...nd-equivalents

[The Old LefHook]

Here is one explaining the subject in general. Sounds fairly complex, and there seems to be a choice of exactly what to measure that some experts may disagree on.

https://www.connectsavannah.com/sava...nt?oid=2133328