2 heavyweight all time tourneys

[JAB5239]

If this doesn't illicit debate and argument, nothing will. Must watch whole video of both tournaments. I disagree with much, but agree with a lot as well. Enjoy!!

https://youtu.be/FnWap2YOc5c

[Dempsey19]

If this doesn't illicit debate and argument, nothing will. Must watch whole video of both tournaments. I disagree with much, but agree with a lot as well. Enjoy!!

https://youtu.be/FnWap2YOc5c

I just typed out a nice long post talking about this but Capcha proved its cruelty.

[Dempsey19]

Here are the basic pointers-

1. He says it's intentionally random. Which is why he first has Holmes beating Foreman and then vice-versa. Also Tyson-Frazier.

2. 204 pound Liston being too physically strong for 240 pound Wlad is a questionable statement.

3. What this really proves is how important styles match-up is. Unless you have a style that is good against all other styles- Archie Moore ?

4. And yes lots of the individual match-ups merit disagreement. He sort of contradicts himself in Marciano vs. Holmes. I think Marciano has all the tools to beat Holmes. His understanding of Johnson vs Lewis is also kind of weird, I'm not saying Lewis wouldn't beat Johnson (but I'm not saying vice-versa either). But the idea that Lennox would control a fight with Jabs against a master of parrying jabs is kind of strange. And I think Prime Holyfield beats Prime Lewis but that's just an opinion.

[billeau2]

If this doesn't illicit debate and argument, nothing will. Must watch whole video of both tournaments. I disagree with much, but agree with a lot as well. Enjoy!!

https://youtu.be/FnWap2YOc5c

That was fun.

A lot of disagreements but so what? what I do credit him with is pointing out what a nightmare Tyson would be head to head. Tyson had a lot of weapons at his best, even though his best was so fleeting. Ive seen mike execute pivots, and of course hit with both hands naturally, etc.

Regarding Louis it has often been pointed out that his consistency speaks for itself. He beat a lot of guys for sure.

Like a lot of people I think he is too sold on Holmes...Revisionist thinking has been kind to Larry for sure... But he was susceptable to big punchers. And he never fought the kind of pressure fighter that tells us how he would do against Marciano or Frazier.

Can anyone think of a really good pressure guy Holmes fought? off hand at prime? Holy was later and he lost.

[QueensburyRules]

That was fun.

A lot of disagreements but so what? what I do credit him with is pointing out what a nightmare Tyson would be head to head. Tyson had a lot of weapons at his best, even though his best was so fleeting. Ive seen mike execute pivots, and of course hit with both hands naturally, etc.

Regarding Louis it has often been pointed out that his consistency speaks for itself. He beat a lot of guys for sure.

Like a lot of people I think he is too sold on Holmes...Revisionist thinking has been kind to Larry for sure... But he was susceptable to big punchers. And he never fought the kind of pressure fighter that tells us how he would do against Marciano or Frazier.

Can anyone think of a really good pressure guy Holmes fought? off hand at prime? Holy was later and he lost.

- -Lar got beat by every standing champ holding a title.

Pretty much affirms why he ducked the WBA champs and later the WBC guys after he forfeited that title.

And what great gets Knocked down by Butterbean?

[billeau2]

- -Lar got beat by every standing champ holding a title.

Pretty much affirms why he ducked the WBA champs and later the WBC guys after he forfeited that title.

And what great gets Knocked down by Butterbean?

yeah I am not sold on Holmes totally either. he started out a bad imitation of Ali, and when he insulted Marciano when he was going for the streak, most of the pundits felt he could not hold Marciano's Jockstrap. I don't think he beats Marciano, definitely not in a 15 rounder...and while its good to see him get some props, it just looks like the dialectic swung the other way too far on him.

[Dempsey19]

yeah I am not sold on Holmes totally either. he started out a bad imitation of Ali, and when he insulted Marciano when he was going for the streak, most of the pundits felt he could not hold Marciano's Jockstrap. I don't think he beats Marciano, definitely not in a 15 rounder...and while its good to see him get some props, it just looks like the dialectic swung the other way too far on him.

The maker of the video grew up in the 80s. He is probably a huge Holmes fan and consciously or subconsciously this makes him rate him a bit too high.

[QueensburyRules]

- -Oddly I don't begrudge Lar for his Rocky slur after Rocky's son hounded him mercilessly as DKing matched him with the LH champ for his 49th like Rock finished with.

Nonetheless, the Rock slur became the proverbial albatross hung round his neck for life, c'est la vie...

[LITTLE JOE]

yeah I am not sold on Holmes totally either. he started out a bad imitation of Ali, and when he insulted Marciano when he was going for the streak, most of the pundits felt he could not hold Marciano's Jockstrap. I don't think he beats Marciano, definitely not in a 15 rounder...and while its good to see him get some props, it just looks like the dialectic swung the other way too far on him.

Yeah but you have to admit,nobody could do a pirouette into the turnbuckle like Larry. (after the Snipes knockdown) LOL !

[billeau2]

- -Oddly I don't begrudge Lar for his Rocky slur after Rocky's son hounded him mercilessly as DKing matched him with the LH champ for his 49th like Rock finished with.

Nonetheless, the Rock slur became the proverbial albatross hung round his neck for life, c'est la vie...

Actually I like Holmes. I do think he is a fighter who deserves credit, just think the pendulum has to settle in to a rhythm so to speak.

As an individual the guy took on Don King and has been a success and who cannot love him for his rendition of Superman when he flew at berbick?