Better amateur Lomachenko-Rigo

[!! Shawn]

[QUOTE=pesticid;16956678]

Where are you guys getting this 12 losses number for Rigondeaux from?

He's amateur record has always been 243-4, even from his own mouth.

For someone who's watched Olympic boxing very closely and having watched both Rigondeaux in 2000, 2004 and Lomachenko in 2008, 2012 the question of who's better is without a doubt Rigondeaux.

Just keep this in mind, had Rigondeaux not been banned in the 2008 Olympics, there is not a amateur boxing expert in the world who would have picked Lomachenko as a favorite over Rigondeaux either in 2008 or 2012. Regardless of their records.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the amateur competition in Cuba is a lot harder and you face a lot harder opposition on a monthly bases than you do in Ukraine.

Lomachenko is great amateur and his record is incredible but that's what most people here are making their judgements on. Just the numbers.

Keep this in mind, unlike Rigondeaux Lomachenko emerged in the amateur ranks at the perfect time. Rigondeaux emerged in 2000 but shared the spotlight with Felix Savon who went on to win his 3rd Gold Medal. In 2004 he again shared the spotlight with Kindelan (who beat Khan for the gold) winning his 2nd Gold Medal. Regardless of this, every commentator in the tournament still labeled him the best amateur in the world.

Lomachenko came in 2008 and 2012 when competition in the Olympics was not necessarily the strongest and there were no superstars coming back. In 2008 guys near his division or already olympic champions like Gamboa, Barthelemy and Rigondeaux were all absent (having all defected) so it opened the perfect chance for Lomachenko to emerge. Have no doubt that all three guys, would have all been though of higher than Lomachenko.

The claim of greatest amateur ever is a promotional tool from Top Rank and HBO which they leveled Rigondeaux a few years ago when they were promoting him (go back and look at the press conference for Cordoba, for Ramos etc) and are now using it for Lomachenko since they stopped promoting Rigondeaux.

Neither guys is the best amateur ever, guys like Stevenson, Papp, Savon, etc all did a lot more than both guys.

But in terms of pure skills, even in the amateur way more than in the pros, ask people who've covered a lot of amateur boxing and most will tell you that skill wise not many have ever come close to Rigondeaux.

We're talking about a guy who for an entire Olympics never took a sit on his corner stool in between rounds and very rarely did his corner ever speak to him. Just go back and look at the tapes, it was a different level.[/QUOTE]

Quoted for the truth. It was over before it was over and not because of judges or anything like that. Rigo in his athletic prime was an abomination. I haven't seen a fighter close to that level of athleticism and boxing acumen in the smaller divisions. You could say Gamboa, Floyd and Loma but it's just different level. Heck not even Kindelan could compare.

Kindelan was probably the best feet ever besides Rigondeaux, but Rigondeaux had everything on top the foot work.

Its whats a shame is most of the boxing public has never seen Rigondeaux in his prime. Rigondeaux that we have seen in the pros is a shell of himself, and even that is probably the best boxer in the world. Thats incredible.

Just watching Rigo use his feet alone is beautiful. Its just poetry. Ive never seen better footwork.

He is without question the best fighter to ever come out of Cuba, and its arguable that he is the greatest of all time, skill and talentwise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnfwIod-YOY

His 2000 olympic run, he won his first fight in two, count them, two punches...

2nd fight, had two legit knockdowns, absolutely textbook.

[!! Shawn]

i am old school with this stuff......it's all about who did they fight? we know amateur records are inflated like hell.

rigo has fought the better comp by far (not even close) so it goes to him. most people will vote based on sure record without seeing who they actually fought. so it is what it is.

I agree with this. Rigo fought a murders row for his medals, and had to fight his way out of cuba which is a murders row in an of itself.

[pesticid]

Thats exactly my point. If it was allowed for Cuba to send as many fighters as the pleased to the olympics and every other nation as well. Cuba would be placing 1st 2nd and 3rd in most weight classes.

But often due to politics the 3rd or 4th best in the division in cuba alone is sent out and wins world championships and olympic golds. Famously Felix Savon was beaten by Orlando Solis in the cuban national championships but Savon was still sent to the olympics to claim his 3rd gold medal, while Solis was let loose to claim 3 world championships and an olympic gold medal of his own a full olympic cycle later.

The depth in cuba is just insane. I think most people who dont follow or haven't participated in the amateur system dont appreciate how feared the cubans are, because you are never in for an easy night. Many fighters are known to "miss the weight" to avoid fighting the cubans.

Winning the cuban national championship is about on par with winning the world championships.

It makes sense though, its a system where kids are recruited from schools without a choice and selected to be boxers and put in boxing schools from the time they are little, and raised with boxing as their only focus every day all day.

Its harsh, but it breeds remarkable fighters.

Agree with everything, however, kids are not really recruited without given a choice, not nowadays anyway. I live there quite a bit and most of my friends are boxing trainers. Basically how it is, is they go to the elementary schools and ask who wants to box and there are 50 kids that want to fight lol. So after a month you're left with 20, after 3 months 10-12 and it might even drop more as it's very disciplined training. There are 14 year old kids that beat up amateur ranked fighters there regularly.

[yngwie]

I have to go with Lomachenko because He won all the prizes you can win at amateur boxing, including the val barker trophy and the youth championships.