Harry Greb in 1919

[travestyny]

A thought: Have you tried looking for newspaper articles from other cities that might not be biased? Maybe Chicago papers from the same period?

I think that would be a good thing to do. I did find a picture of the promoters holding the guarantee check at the bank from another newspaper.

B. E. Clements of the Chicago Coliseum club backs up his injunction secured recently in Denver barring jack Dempsey from meeting Gene Tunney until the champion meets Harry Wills in a Chicago battle with a $300,000 guarantee check posted in Dempsey's favor with the Equitable Trust Co., of Chicago. Photo shewn, left to right: W. A. Nieol, cashier of the Equityable Trust Co., of Chicago; "Doc" Krone, promoter of Pat Carr'a Christmas Fund for Poor Kids, who will benefit from the fight funds; John F. Gordon, fight promoter, and B. E. Clements, president Chicago Coliseum club (shown presenting check to bank cashier).

https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/117171729/

Really, the only thing that's important here is that there was a valid contract, which can be ascertained from the court brief (anyone can look up Chicago Coliseum Club v. Dempsey), and that the money was present. That part isn't even so important since Dempsey broke the contract before the first payment was to arrive anyway. However, various newspapers including the NYT and the one above showed that.

[travestyny]

I gotta admit, I'm impressed. usually when folks are presented with insurmountable facts they abandon argument because they've been convinced of the alternative, or because they have nothing else to say.

But page after page of this thread you persist in replying. And you don't even attempt counter arguments! You just return to instigate another beating.

Again, I get it, you're in it for the attention. But God almighty, I've never met such a glutton for punishment.

Awww, is that your way of waving the white flag

Here's the counterargument that you keep ignoring: Wills has a better resume than Dempsey. It aint even hard to tell.

I'm still waiting for that list that shows Gibbons ahead of Langford


You can't find one, can you? Keep ducking it

[JAB5239]

Good thing you don't have credibility because you would have lost it here.

Langford most certainly is NOT better than "anyone on Dempsey's resume". Your suggestion as much shows just how little you know about Boxing; so much so that it seems unlikely you even watch it.

In fact, out of respect Dempsey passed on fighting Langford.

Wills conversely didn't simply beat Langford, he struggled with him, too. Langford was advanced in age and obviously a bit smaller and fatter than Wills but have Wills all he could handle (including a KO). So while Wills finally won out thanks to the assistance of Father Time, that series speaks more to the achievement of Langford than of Wills.

Now, onto the men who were better than Langford:

Dempsey made short work of two Heavyweight champions.

One of those Champs pelted Wills.

The other was a titan of a man who'd KO'd a man who'd battered Langford.

Gibbons was a Light Heavyweight Champion.

Tunney is the best fighter we have on film below 200 pounds (besides Dempsey, himself). Wills wanted no part of Tunney. You can't blame him. If he struggled with an old Langford he had no hope against Gene Tunney.

You could easily say Firpo is inferior to Langford. I'm OK with that. But the WAY Jack annihilated him was absolutely amazing. Even in the Heavyweight division we've seen few performances like that.

Firpo was a finished fighter after that fight. Wills was a vulture setting in on his remains. This was no longer The Raging Bull of the Pampas. This was his butchered carcass. It was supposed to be an easy win for Wills too boost his standing and convince the world of his rightful place in the ring across from Dempsey. You'd expect a career-defining performance, right?

He fumbled through the fight miserably. Completely underwhelming. Firpo was little more than a punching bag that night, and still Wills bombed his audition.

Willard, Gibbons, Firpo, Sharkey, Tunney... all fighters better Wills. All fights, as shown on film, where Jack demonstrated more skill than Langford or Wills could ever hope to possess.

Langford was definitely better than anyone on Dempsey's resume. And even old and blind, Dempsey admitted Sam was the one fighter who scared him.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Awww, is that your way of waving the white flag

Here's the counterargument that you keep ignoring: Wills has a better resume than Dempsey. It aint even hard to tell.

I'm still waiting for that list that shows Gibbons ahead of Langford


You can't find one, can you? Keep ducking it

Maybe go ahead and clean my spunk out of your eyes. You clearly can't see what's going on.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Langford was definitely better than anyone on Dempsey's resume. And even old and blind, Dempsey admitted Sam was the one fighter who scared him.

I'd say that.


If I were re.tarded


No offense but you've been proven patently anti-Dempsey.

And terribly inconsistent.

I've already proven your statement wrong, at length. But who needs to bother reading that?

Because if YOU are saying Langford is better than anyone on Dempsey's resume, there's one thing the rest of can be sure of: that's absolutely NOT true.

[Willie Pep 229]

Langford was definitely better than anyone on Dempsey's resume. And even old and blind, Dempsey admitted Sam was the one fighter who scared him.

Dempsey and Kearns (who also said it) were just being polite to an old Langford.

The remarks came when Langford went to Kearns looking for a fight; it was a polite way to blow Langford off in the newspapers. He wasn't going to be a viable fight to make Dempsey serious money. If they were going to take on the problems associated with promoting a 'mixed fight' it was going to be Harry Wills, maybe even Jack Johnson, but not Sam Langford.

That Dempsey remark ('scared') is taken out of context as to what decade it was. Dempsey was always a mensch and almost always said nice things about other fighters.

Have you seen Langford fight? I only know of one film (Joe Jeanette), in it they both look good, but within the limits of the pre-Roaring Twenties style of fighting. A lot of lunging in, one punch, and grab.

I know, not fair to judge on just one fight.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Dempsey and Kearns (who also said it) were just being polite to an old Langford.

The remarks came when Langford went to Kearns looking for a fight; it was a polite way to blow Langford off in the newspapers. He wasn't going to be a viable fight to make Dempsey serious money. If they were going to take on the problems associated with promoting a 'mixed fight' it was going to be Harry Wills, maybe even Jack Johnson, but not Sam Langford.

That Dempsey remark ('scared') is taken out of context as to what decade it was. Dempsey was always a mensch and almost always said nice things about other fighters.

Have you seen Langford fight? I only know of one film (Joe Jeanette), in it they both look good, but within the limits of the pre-Roaring Twenties style of fighting. A lot of lunging in, one punch, and grab.

I know, not fair to judge on just one fight.

I don't want to ball Jab up into this group, but there are a lot of folks here (I am sure one in particular comes to mind currently) who take things very literally. Nuance is lost on them.

Langford in his prime might have given Dempsey an interesting fight. But all the footage we have of Langford is of a primitive fighter. Again, he's better than that his peers, but he's far from the refined modern fighter that was typical of the next generation.

He definitely wasn't as physically imposing/skilled as Willard, Sharkey, Tunney, or Gibbons. There's no reason to believe he would have lasted any longer than Firpo.

Actually, the best fighter of that era, and probably the best P4P before Greb arrived was Packey McFarland. But you won't hear his name mentioned because he doesn't have groupies like Langford does.

[JAB5239]

I'd say that.


If I were re.tarded


No offense but you've been proven patently anti-Dempsey.

And terribly inconsistent.

I've already proven your statement wrong, at length. But who needs to bother reading that?

Because if YOU are saying Langford is better than anyone on Dempsey's resume, there's one thing the rest of can be sure of: that's absolutely NOT true.

How am I anti Dempsey? Am I anti Johnson because I think he ducked Langford after Sam had filled out and gotten more experience?

You've proven nothing son. Olnly spewed your opinion.

[JAB5239]

Dempsey and Kearns (who also said it) were just being polite to an old Langford.

The remarks came when Langford went to Kearns looking for a fight; it was a polite way to blow Langford off in the newspapers. He wasn't going to be a viable fight to make Dempsey serious money. If they were going to take on the problems associated with promoting a 'mixed fight' it was going to be Harry Wills, maybe even Jack Johnson, but not Sam Langford.

That Dempsey remark ('scared') is taken out of context as to what decade it was. Dempsey was always a mensch and almost always said nice things about other fighters.

Have you seen Langford fight? I only know of one film (Joe Jeanette), in it they both look good, but within the limits of the pre-Roaring Twenties style of fighting. A lot of lunging in, one punch, and grab.

I know, not fair to judge on just one fight.

It's a matter of opinion of what Jack felt when he said it. What is not a matter of opinion is Langfords greatness. There is NO fighter on Dempsey's resume as good as Sam, I'd argue that all day

[travestyny]

Maybe go ahead and clean my spunk out of your eyes. You clearly can't see what's going on.

Your childish and hom@erotic fantasies don't impress me, son. It just shows how much you are hurt by the truth