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View Poll Results: DO YOU PLACE YOUR FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST BELIEVING HE DIED N ROSE AGAIN FOR YOUR SINS?
YES 17 33.33%
NO 14 27.45%
I ALREADY PLACED MY FAITH IN CHRIST AND HIS SACRIFICE FOR MY SINS 17 33.33%
OTHER 3 5.88%
Voters: 51. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-09-2020, 08:00 AM #221
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Originally Posted by K-DOGG View Post
There are many distractions. Religions is just one of them; and not nearly as effective now, as it was before the advent of modern technology, the internet, and social media, where people have more access to information.

Organized religion has always been about control.
Ok, now give me some substance to support your position. Who is too distracted by heaven to focus on Earth, and what has been the effect of said distraction?
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Old 03-09-2020, 08:34 AM #222
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Originally Posted by K-DOGG View Post
1. Begin by understanding the "heaven" is a construct created to give the suffering "light at the end of the tunnel", which, ultimately results in one not focusing on making "this world" a better place. If you're focused on saving your soul and converting others to your beliefs so you can live in "paradise" some day, after you die, you are not focusing on making the changes necessary to create "paradise on earth", or some reasonable facsimile.

It is far easier to focus on the abstract than the tough battle of dealing with the "real", which is right in front of you. It's fantasy vs reality....and avoidance of the problems we, as a species, face in the here and now, for saving one's soul is "personal"; but, unfortunately, is a distraction, as it has proven to affect no real change in this realm.

Sup K-DOGG. Hope life is good-ish.

I see what you are saying.
Some people put their faith in god before other people. So religion can distract from real life. Thinking you are doing the Lords work by praying in a room instead of actually helping others for example.

But like GGG sort of said, faith can also focus a person on helping others instead of themselves.

It can work both ways depending on how the individual "uses" their faith.

An example...saying Grace before eating makes people spare a thought for those less fortunate. Better than just stuffing your face.

Im no believer, but psychologically religion can be a doorway to deeper thought. I think.
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Old 03-10-2020, 05:35 AM #223
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Sup K-DOGG. Hope life is good-ish.

I see what you are saying.
Some people put their faith in god before other people. So religion can distract from real life. Thinking you are doing the Lords work by praying in a room instead of actually helping others for example.

But like GGG sort of said, faith can also focus a person on helping others instead of themselves.

It can work both ways depending on how the individual "uses" their faith.

An example...saying Grace before eating makes people spare a thought for those less fortunate. Better than just stuffing your face.

Im no believer, but psychologically religion can be a doorway to deeper thought. I think.
Life's good bro, hope it's well with you, as well.

Faith can be a good thing, for the very reason you outlined; but it has also been perverted in the hands of madmen to do great harm.

I'm not saying there's no "God", per say. I absolutely believe there is "something" and I believe whatever that "something" is, is inherently "good"; but I also think it's far more complicated than any man-made faith can define...especially considering the blueprint for those beliefs were outlined by men in the bronze and iron age.

I don't begrudge anyone the right to believe what they want to believe. I'm simply saying that no book is big enough to encapsulate or define such an entity.

The simple truth is, we really don't know what lies beyond the veil of death and "heaven" and "hell" are fabrications which were dangled before the masses to get them to follow the edicts of mother church in the dark ages.

Of course, much has changed since Martin Luther nailed his edicts on the door, five hundred or so years ago and there are many denominations now and "the church" does not have nearly the power it once wielded; but that does not mean the church has no power. Just look at the political scene in the U.S.

To your point, concerning "saying grace", why should we need a promise of eternal life to think of those less fortunate than us?

We don't. It's just an old habit we don't know how to break. We're scared of the dark and want to believe there's light beyond the darkness of death; and "heaven" is a good story, as we have nothing of any substance to replace it.
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Old 03-10-2020, 06:07 AM #224
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Ok, now give me some substance to support your position. Who is too distracted by heaven to focus on Earth, and what has been the effect of said distraction?
It's a mentality. According to "holy writ," man is the steward of the earth, right? Everything under creation was made "for us". Earth is a passing thing and so are we. This reality is not permanent, for a greater world ( new heaven and a new earth) is to come.

That means we can use anything we want to what purpose we desire at our discretion, because none of "this" really matters, as long as we follow the "word of God" and worship "him", etc. etc.

This directly corresponds with political criteria of the processing, use, and extinguishing of our natural resources: forests, water, oil, coal, gold, etc. We can use as much as we want, because it doesn't matter, in the end. Rather than us focusing on innovations towards the production of reusable energy and keeping our environment as close to pristine as possible for future generations, we nab whatever we can and consume it with no fear of any natural repercussions.

All of the wars in which we are currently engaged revolve around the control of oil. The strength of the American dollar relies almost solely upon the fact that oil must be bought and sold using it, giving our government motivation to enforce that this remains so. All the people who are dying in the Middle East, are ultimately dying because power brokers want control of the regions and it's resources.

Another example is in our attitude towards authority, though that took some time to cultivate. When Constantine first organized Christianity as the official religion of Rome, the die was cast. As the power of the church grew, for "Kings" were ordained to rule by "God" and "mother church" controlled the royalty.

Free thought, such as the Cathars and their beliefs, and women steeped in herbal lore and knowledge were stamped out and burned at the stake as heretics and witches. If you did not comply with the Church's views on God, you were in the wrong. Gendercide against Native Americans was carried out in the name of God, to say nothing of the Crusades and the taking of the "Holy Land"....all because "Mother Church" deemed it to be "God's will".

In the U.S., prior to the Civil War, Bible verses about slavery were used to justify the practice and slaves were taught to respect their masters and to obey and not rebel, for a greater rewards awaited them in heaven. Once again, this was "God's will".

Neither "mother church" nor even religion still has this power, even though religion still plays a dominant role in our very political scene, today, and what topics candidates debate over; but, more importantly, after centuries of believing in "the order of things", that attitude that certain people were more fit to lead than others became embedded in our cultures and in our consciousnesses, in "God's will" (which is an abstract construct which nobody knows, yet few claim to have insight to) rather than ours.

So accustomed we became to following, "like sheep", that, eventually, the church no longer needed to be in control. We were acclimated to our assigned role and our parents did the rest of the work, raising us "right", to respect the law and the lawgivers to the point that we no longer question whether or not a law is just. "Let go and let God," so to speak.

Once again, it's a mindset of acceptance.

We simply follow. We do not question. We trust others to lead. Even though we do have the privilege to vote for our own leaders, now, isn't it funny how they all seem to run in the same circles before they come to the public forefront for election....but that's another topic.

This is the "control" of which I speak. It is a control over the mind and the mindset. Being a member of an organized religion is no longer even a prerequisite, as the damage is done. the virus has spread beyond the confines of the church. The distraction is embedded, even if we're not distracted by "heaven", per say, anymore, we are distracted to do our work, here on earth, to play our role as good little sheep (lambs of god) under the watchful eye of our leaders, who have their position because "God" saw fit to put them in that position...…"God's will," once again.

It's a mindset....it's an attitude which is reinforced.

Last edited by K-DOGG; 03-10-2020 at 06:59 AM.
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Old 03-10-2020, 10:18 AM #225
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Originally Posted by K-DOGG View Post
It's a mentality. According to "holy writ," man is the steward of the earth, right? Everything under creation was made "for us". Earth is a passing thing and so are we. This reality is not permanent, for a greater world ( new heaven and a new earth) is to come.

That means we can use anything we want to what purpose we desire at our discretion, because none of "this" really matters, as long as we follow the "word of God" and worship "him", etc. etc.

This directly corresponds with political criteria of the processing, use, and extinguishing of our natural resources: forests, water, oil, coal, gold, etc. We can use as much as we want, because it doesn't matter, in the end. Rather than us focusing on innovations towards the production of reusable energy and keeping our environment as close to pristine as possible for future generations, we nab whatever we can and consume it with no fear of any natural repercussions.

All of the wars in which we are currently engaged revolve around the control of oil. The strength of the American dollar relies almost solely upon the fact that oil must be bought and sold using it, giving our government motivation to enforce that this remains so. All the people who are dying in the Middle East, are ultimately dying because power brokers want control of the regions and it's resources.

Another example is in our attitude towards authority, though that took some time to cultivate. When Constantine first organized Christianity as the official religion of Rome, the die was cast. As the power of the church grew, for "Kings" were ordained to rule by "God" and "mother church" controlled the royalty.

Free thought, such as the Cathars and their beliefs, and women steeped in herbal lore and knowledge were stamped out and burned at the stake as heretics and witches. If you did not comply with the Church's views on God, you were in the wrong. Gendercide against Native Americans was carried out in the name of God, to say nothing of the Crusades and the taking of the "Holy Land"....all because "Mother Church" deemed it to be "God's will".

In the U.S., prior to the Civil War, Bible verses about slavery were used to justify the practice and slaves were taught to respect their masters and to obey and not rebel, for a greater rewards awaited them in heaven. Once again, this was "God's will".

Neither "mother church" nor even religion still has this power, even though religion still plays a dominant role in our very political scene, today, and what topics candidates debate over; but, more importantly, after centuries of believing in "the order of things", that attitude that certain people were more fit to lead than others became embedded in our cultures and in our consciousnesses, in "God's will" (which is an abstract construct which nobody knows, yet few claim to have insight to) rather than ours.

So accustomed we became to following, "like sheep", that, eventually, the church no longer needed to be in control. We were acclimated to our assigned role and our parents did the rest of the work, raising us "right", to respect the law and the lawgivers to the point that we no longer question whether or not a law is just. "Let go and let God," so to speak.

Once again, it's a mindset of acceptance.

We simply follow. We do not question. We trust others to lead. Even though we do have the privilege to vote for our own leaders, now, isn't it funny how they all seem to run in the same circles before they come to the public forefront for election....but that's another topic.

This is the "control" of which I speak. It is a control over the mind and the mindset. Being a member of an organized religion is no longer even a prerequisite, as the damage is done. the virus has spread beyond the confines of the church. The distraction is embedded, even if we're not distracted by "heaven", per say, anymore, we are distracted to do our work, here on earth, to play our role as good little sheep (lambs of god) under the watchful eye of our leaders, who have their position because "God" saw fit to put them in that position..."God's will," once again.

It's a mindset....it's an attitude which is reinforced.
This is a grossly inaccurate misrepresentation of what Christian Stewardship is. There are literally classes taught and sermons spoken on what being a Christian Steward is, and it involves none of what you are saying. The example of a Steward on a ship is given, and of how the Steward is responsible for the care of both the ship and it's cargo (or passengers). The self indulgence and disregard for the planet you speak of is more in line with the teachings of Satanism than Christianity.

You keep trying to add this point about religion equating to control. Let me just say this; there is no correlation between religion and a government wanting to control people. Every government does. Case in point, the atheist (and controlling) government of China contrasted with the reigious (and uncontrolling) government of US. By your logic, the atheist government should be the more liberal one.
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Old 03-10-2020, 06:50 PM #226
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Originally Posted by K-DOGG View Post
Life's good bro, hope it's well with you, as well.

Faith can be a good thing, for the very reason you outlined; but it has also been perverted in the hands of madmen to do great harm.

I'm not saying there's no "God", per say. I absolutely believe there is "something" and I believe whatever that "something" is, is inherently "good"; but I also think it's far more complicated than any man-made faith can define...especially considering the blueprint for those beliefs were outlined by men in the bronze and iron age.

I don't begrudge anyone the right to believe what they want to believe. I'm simply saying that no book is big enough to encapsulate or define such an entity.

The simple truth is, we really don't know what lies beyond the veil of death and "heaven" and "hell" are fabrications which were dangled before the masses to get them to follow the edicts of mother church in the dark ages.

Of course, much has changed since Martin Luther nailed his edicts on the door, five hundred or so years ago and there are many denominations now and "the church" does not have nearly the power it once wielded; but that does not mean the church has no power. Just look at the political scene in the U.S.

To your point, concerning "saying grace", why should we need a promise of eternal life to think of those less fortunate than us?

We don't. It's just an old habit we don't know how to break. We're scared of the dark and want to believe there's light beyond the darkness of death; and "heaven" is a good story, as we have nothing of any substance to replace it.
I agree mostly.
"Religion" has always been used to control. But obviously not just control. It can be a form of social cohesion.
There are communities that desperately need something to help. And sometimes good people can run a church and actually do a lot of good.
Then there is the manipulative controlling authoritative "religion".
I guess religion is multifaceted.

With saying grace, i think cherry pick a lot with religion. I think people can say the good stuff that may open them to deeper thought and pretty much ignore the fire and brimstone stuff.


Quote:
Originally Posted by K-DOGG View Post
It's a mentality. According to "holy writ," man is the steward of the earth, right? Everything under creation was made "for us". Earth is a passing thing and so are we. This reality is not permanent, for a greater world ( new heaven and a new earth) is to come.

That means we can use anything we want to what purpose we desire at our discretion, because none of "this" really matters, as long as we follow the "word of God" and worship "him", etc. etc.

This directly corresponds with political criteria of the processing, use, and extinguishing of our natural resources: forests, water, oil, coal, gold, etc. We can use as much as we want, because it doesn't matter, in the end. Rather than us focusing on innovations towards the production of reusable energy and keeping our environment as close to pristine as possible for future generations, we nab whatever we can and consume it with no fear of any natural repercussions.

All of the wars in which we are currently engaged revolve around the control of oil. The strength of the American dollar relies almost solely upon the fact that oil must be bought and sold using it, giving our government motivation to enforce that this remains so. All the people who are dying in the Middle East, are ultimately dying because power brokers want control of the regions and it's resources.

Another example is in our attitude towards authority, though that took some time to cultivate. When Constantine first organized Christianity as the official religion of Rome, the die was cast. As the power of the church grew, for "Kings" were ordained to rule by "God" and "mother church" controlled the royalty.

Free thought, such as the Cathars and their beliefs, and women steeped in herbal lore and knowledge were stamped out and burned at the stake as heretics and witches. If you did not comply with the Church's views on God, you were in the wrong. Gendercide against Native Americans was carried out in the name of God, to say nothing of the Crusades and the taking of the "Holy Land"....all because "Mother Church" deemed it to be "God's will".

In the U.S., prior to the Civil War, Bible verses about slavery were used to justify the practice and slaves were taught to respect their masters and to obey and not rebel, for a greater rewards awaited them in heaven. Once again, this was "God's will".

Neither "mother church" nor even religion still has this power, even though religion still plays a dominant role in our very political scene, today, and what topics candidates debate over; but, more importantly, after centuries of believing in "the order of things", that attitude that certain people were more fit to lead than others became embedded in our cultures and in our consciousnesses, in "God's will" (which is an abstract construct which nobody knows, yet few claim to have insight to) rather than ours.

So accustomed we became to following, "like sheep", that, eventually, the church no longer needed to be in control. We were acclimated to our assigned role and our parents did the rest of the work, raising us "right", to respect the law and the lawgivers to the point that we no longer question whether or not a law is just. "Let go and let God," so to speak.

Once again, it's a mindset of acceptance.

We simply follow. We do not question. We trust others to lead. Even though we do have the privilege to vote for our own leaders, now, isn't it funny how they all seem to run in the same circles before they come to the public forefront for election....but that's another topic.

This is the "control" of which I speak. It is a control over the mind and the mindset. Being a member of an organized religion is no longer even a prerequisite, as the damage is done. the virus has spread beyond the confines of the church. The distraction is embedded, even if we're not distracted by "heaven", per say, anymore, we are distracted to do our work, here on earth, to play our role as good little sheep (lambs of god) under the watchful eye of our leaders, who have their position because "God" saw fit to put them in that position..."God's will," once again.

It's a mindset....it's an attitude which is reinforced.

Heck of a post.
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Old 03-10-2020, 07:32 PM #227
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Originally Posted by GGG Gloveking View Post
This is a grossly inaccurate misrepresentation of what Christian Stewardship is. There are literally classes taught and sermons spoken on what being a Christian Steward is, and it involves none of what you are saying. The example of a Steward on a ship is given, and of how the Steward is responsible for the care of both the ship and it's cargo (or passengers). The self indulgence and disregard for the planet you speak of is more in line with the teachings of Satanism than Christianity.

You keep trying to add this point about religion equating to control. Let me just say this; there is no correlation between religion and a government wanting to control people. Every government does. Case in point, the atheist (and controlling) government of China contrasted with the reigious (and uncontrolling) government of US. By your logic, the atheist government should be the more liberal one.
I dont think you understood K-DOGGs point.

Organised religion is built upon the cultivation of subservience.
And this mindset is exploited by those in power.
Obedience is seen as a virtue.

Also, it depends on what branch of Satanism, but in general Satanists see themselves as animals. No better than other animals. Quite the opposite to Christian thought. Where animals are souless food.
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Old 03-10-2020, 08:40 PM #228
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Originally Posted by MEXICAN STYLE View Post
The irony is that atheist neckbeard fedora wearing geeks shove their lack off believes down people's throats way more than JESUS FREAKS do nowadays
good one ^

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Originally Posted by Spray_resistant View Post
Agree, discussion is cool but people strong in their beliefs which amounts to blind optimism or in some cases pessimism have no interest in open discussion but rather convincing other to adhere to their ideas.
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Originally Posted by K-DOGG View Post
1. Begin by understanding the "heaven" is a construct created to give the suffering "light at the end of the tunnel", which, ultimately results in one not focusing on making "this world" a better place. If you're focused on saving your soul and converting others to your beliefs so you can live in "paradise" some day, after you die, you are not focusing on making the changes necessary to create "paradise on earth", or some reasonable facsimile.

It is far easier to focus on the abstract than the tough battle of dealing with the "real", which is right in front of you. It's fantasy vs reality....and avoidance of the problems we, as a species, face in the here and now, for saving one's soul is "personal"; but, unfortunately, is a distraction, as it has proven to affect no real change in this realm.
you have some good points here, but i think the point of heaven as "light at the end of the tunnel" is because of the fact that life here is temporary at best and usually filled with a lot of suffering


Quote:
Originally Posted by K-DOGG View Post
There are many distractions. Religions is just one of them; and not nearly as effective now, as it was before the advent of modern technology, the internet, and social media, where people have more access to information.

Organized religion has always been about control.
this is definitely true ^

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-DOGG View Post
In short....if you are focused on something beyond death, you are not going to focus on making great changes during life. This is not to say great changes cannot be made; but if you look at the history of at least Christianity and Islam, making a better world, here, has failed miserably.
what's wrong with having something to hope for if our life is miserable, though?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Noose View Post
Sup K-DOGG. Hope life is good-ish.

I see what you are saying.
Some people put their faith in god before other people. So religion can distract from real life. Thinking you are doing the Lords work by praying in a room instead of actually helping others for example.

But like GGG sort of said, faith can also focus a person on helping others instead of themselves.

It can work both ways depending on how the individual "uses" their faith.

An example...saying Grace before eating makes people spare a thought for those less fortunate. Better than just stuffing your face.

Im no believer, but psychologically religion can be a doorway to deeper thought. I think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-DOGG View Post
Life's good bro, hope it's well with you, as well.

Faith can be a good thing, for the very reason you outlined; but it has also been perverted in the hands of madmen to do great harm.

I'm not saying there's no "God", per say. I absolutely believe there is "something" and I believe whatever that "something" is, is inherently "good"; but I also think it's far more complicated than any man-made faith can define...especially considering the blueprint for those beliefs were outlined by men in the bronze and iron age.

I don't begrudge anyone the right to believe what they want to believe. I'm simply saying that no book is big enough to encapsulate or define such an entity.

The simple truth is, we really don't know what lies beyond the veil of death and "heaven" and "hell" are fabrications which were dangled before the masses to get them to follow the edicts of mother church in the dark ages.

Of course, much has changed since Martin Luther nailed his edicts on the door, five hundred or so years ago and there are many denominations now and "the church" does not have nearly the power it once wielded; but that does not mean the church has no power. Just look at the political scene in the U.S.

To your point, concerning "saying grace", why should we need a promise of eternal life to think of those less fortunate than us?

We don't. It's just an old habit we don't know how to break. We're scared of the dark and want to believe there's light beyond the darkness of death; and "heaven" is a good story, as we have nothing of any substance to replace it.
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Originally Posted by K-DOGG View Post
It's a mentality. According to "holy writ," man is the steward of the earth, right? Everything under creation was made "for us". Earth is a passing thing and so are we. This reality is not permanent, for a greater world ( new heaven and a new earth) is to come.

That means we can use anything we want to what purpose we desire at our discretion, because none of "this" really matters, as long as we follow the "word of God" and worship "him", etc. etc.

This directly corresponds with political criteria of the processing, use, and extinguishing of our natural resources: forests, water, oil, coal, gold, etc. We can use as much as we want, because it doesn't matter, in the end. Rather than us focusing on innovations towards the production of reusable energy and keeping our environment as close to pristine as possible for future generations, we nab whatever we can and consume it with no fear of any natural repercussions.

All of the wars in which we are currently engaged revolve around the control of oil. The strength of the American dollar relies almost solely upon the fact that oil must be bought and sold using it, giving our government motivation to enforce that this remains so. All the people who are dying in the Middle East, are ultimately dying because power brokers want control of the regions and it's resources.

Another example is in our attitude towards authority, though that took some time to cultivate. When Constantine first organized Christianity as the official religion of Rome, the die was cast. As the power of the church grew, for "Kings" were ordained to rule by "God" and "mother church" controlled the royalty.

Free thought, such as the Cathars and their beliefs, and women steeped in herbal lore and knowledge were stamped out and burned at the stake as heretics and witches. If you did not comply with the Church's views on God, you were in the wrong. Gendercide against Native Americans was carried out in the name of God, to say nothing of the Crusades and the taking of the "Holy Land"....all because "Mother Church" deemed it to be "God's will".

In the U.S., prior to the Civil War, Bible verses about slavery were used to justify the practice and slaves were taught to respect their masters and to obey and not rebel, for a greater rewards awaited them in heaven. Once again, this was "God's will".

Neither "mother church" nor even religion still has this power, even though religion still plays a dominant role in our very political scene, today, and what topics candidates debate over; but, more importantly, after centuries of believing in "the order of things", that attitude that certain people were more fit to lead than others became embedded in our cultures and in our consciousnesses, in "God's will" (which is an abstract construct which nobody knows, yet few claim to have insight to) rather than ours.

So accustomed we became to following, "like sheep", that, eventually, the church no longer needed to be in control. We were acclimated to our assigned role and our parents did the rest of the work, raising us "right", to respect the law and the lawgivers to the point that we no longer question whether or not a law is just. "Let go and let God," so to speak.

Once again, it's a mindset of acceptance.

We simply follow. We do not question. We trust others to lead. Even though we do have the privilege to vote for our own leaders, now, isn't it funny how they all seem to run in the same circles before they come to the public forefront for election....but that's another topic.

This is the "control" of which I speak. It is a control over the mind and the mindset. Being a member of an organized religion is no longer even a prerequisite, as the damage is done. the virus has spread beyond the confines of the church. The distraction is embedded, even if we're not distracted by "heaven", per say, anymore, we are distracted to do our work, here on earth, to play our role as good little sheep (lambs of god) under the watchful eye of our leaders, who have their position because "God" saw fit to put them in that position..."God's will," once again.

It's a mindset....it's an attitude which is reinforced.
as for the section about we can use anyone or anything we want for "God's purpose", no. the bible has multiple verses which speak against situational ethics. we can't do anything we want and then claim it to be good in God's name, even if this is the common practice in society.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Noose View Post
I dont think you understood K-DOGGs point.

Organised religion is built upon the cultivation of subservience.
And this mindset is exploited by those in power.
Obedience is seen as a virtue.


Also, it depends on what branch of Satanism, but in general Satanists see themselves as animals. No better than other animals. Quite the opposite to Christian thought. Where animals are souless food.
organized religion is a means of controlling the masses. The Vatican is the harlot church in the book of Revelation which "has two horns like a lamb but speaks like a dragon" and one day will be exposed as such, since the middle ages the popes have been responsible for the slaughter of millions. The pope may act holy, but he is a political leader, nothing more. I think some of the problems you are describing are the result of people claiming to be christians but not actually living by the principles they claim to believe
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Old 03-10-2020, 09:32 PM #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-DOGG View Post
1. Begin by understanding the "heaven" is a construct created to give the suffering "light at the end of the tunnel", which, ultimately results in one not focusing on making "this world" a better place. If you're focused on saving your soul and converting others to your beliefs so you can live in "paradise" some day, after you die, you are not focusing on making the changes necessary to create "paradise on earth", or some reasonable facsimile.

It is far easier to focus on the abstract than the tough battle of dealing with the "real", which is right in front of you. It's fantasy vs reality....and avoidance of the problems we, as a species, face in the here and now, for saving one's soul is "personal"; but, unfortunately, is a distraction, as it has proven to affect no real change in this realm.
Heaven is a place told to us by Jesus Christ and His Word. He created Heaven, Earth, Hell and the Universe, so I would think that He would know all about Heaven. It's not fantasy, it's reality.
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Old 03-11-2020, 01:15 AM #230
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K dogg mentions Constantine who saw how useful Christianity could be in organizing his Holy Roman Empire. Christians were the chief tormentors and killers of Jews.

Life under Islam was better for most Jews. I think a lot of christians back then couldn’t read the, and were required to obey. Martin Luther really challenged Papal rule, and divide the church.

Christians are grafted into the Jewish faith, not the other way around. Many posters often ask how can GOD allow suffering?

I think you should address that question with scripture.
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