Comments Thread For: SHO's Farhood: To Me, Fury Lost Lineal Title When He Retired

[Toffee]

He's the man who beat the man. You can't lose lineage unless a new lineage is created. If Joshua and Wilder fought while Fury was out of the ring, then a new lineage would have been created.

And people would have still debated it.

Where are these rules that say it's the man who beat the man, unless the old man returns before a new man is created?

It's either him, or it's vacant, or maybe it's still Lennox. It's debatable until someone makes it beyond debate.

[AdonisCreed]

I can see both arguments really. Fury was out of the sport for a while so if someone says he should be stripped of the lineal title I can see that. Also to those who say he hasn't been defeated so how can he lose the lineal status and he just fought the #1 or #2 best HW in the world to a draw. So it's really based on your preference and I can't say anybody's opinion is right or wrong.

[Nusky]

He's the man who beat the man. You can't lose lineage unless a new lineage is created. If Joshua and Wilder fought while Fury was out of the ring, then a new lineage would have been created.

I agree. Farhood is making an ass out of himself everytime he opens his mouth since the wilder/fury fight. Prior to that he wasn't even on my radar.

[pedrito]

I don't think the lineal championship can be vacated...

Either the lineal champ loses, or he retires / has a breakdown / is abducted, then a new lineage needs to be created by having the two top contenders face off.

One could make the argument that Joshua - Klitschko WAS the two top guys... but then again Klitschko was coming off a loss and Joshua wasn't really proven yet.

So it's really hard to make a clear, unbiased judgement.

The only way to have a TRUE lineal champ is to have Wilder, Fury and Joshua fight eachother. We might be a step closed if we hadn't gotten a draw... but here we are.

[rolshans]

The problem with lineal status is there are no hard and cut rules.

If the title means "the man who beat the man," then Lennox was the last lineal champ, and that's that.

If the lineal status is vacated by retirement or "lengthy absence," then so be it...but it kinds of takes away the prestige of the title.

[aboutfkntime]

lineage is over-rated..... so, who fkn cares ?

in saying that.....

1) you cannot " lose " lineage, except in the ring

2) if it is correct to state that Fury's lineage was "lost" upon his retirement, it is also correct to state that his lineage was "found" upon him resuming his career..... FACT: that win over Klitschko is in the books, and Fury is active..... so, tough tltties Farhood

[Batfink]

Lineal / Ring #1 Heavyweight Champion

The lineal title is in my view the true title in the division above the alphabets. This title has historically depicted the actual best fighter in the division and is won by the guy who beat the guy. In cases where this doesn’t happen then the top two ranked fighters in the division fight for the status the winner would be awarded the ring magazine belt in my view the most coveted crown.

Now the heavyweight division at present has come up with a bit of a conundrum or a unique set of circumstances which have arguably 3 different individuals with differing status and all with a legitimate claim to the be the best heavyweight.

Wilder - WBC champion - undefeated. He has fought Luis Ortiz and Tyson Fury.

Aj - Unified Champion - undefeated. He has only really fought Klitschko a bonidife ex champion

Fury - lineal Champion? undefeated He has fought Klitschko and Wilder away and was the lineal Champion until earlier this year when he was stripped by Ring

In order to establish the real champion they all have to fight each other and that’s the only way to know and they all need multiple bouts - 6 fights 3 per person - will never happen in my opinion.

So who is the best? I believe the number 1 in the division is Tyson Fury he beat Klitschko and in my view beat Wilder. But he was rightfully stripped of his lineal(Ring) status early 2018. He will fight anyone and will fight AJ no problem, which he needs to do to ratify his status as #1

Wilder and Joshua it’s tough to say who is better it could go either way in my view Wilder has shown heart and taken on Tyson and Ortiz both huge huge fights and both fights people want to avoid - Joshua is avoiding both because in my view Aj should have taken Tyson on as soon as he could beat him early in his come back then give him a rematch and should have accepted Wilder when he came to uk to challenge AJ.

It seems clear that Ajs camp are not keen on fighting dangerous opposition. I think they are genuinely hiding behind the finances and will not give 50/50 to these guys.

In my view they are worth 50/50. AJ team believe his is worth the lion share although that can be argued I think perhaps against wilder/fury 50/50 is fair as the scale of those fights are huge and both bring a lot to the party.

Aj believes he’s worth more because he has 4 belts and this is where it becomes very interesting. Ownership of a belt doesn’t necessarily make you the best along the history of boxing they have been many individuals that have held a title but are not necessarily the best in the division - these individuals are known as paper champions.

The alphabets are designed to raise revenue to garner public attention. I’m not sure who Aj beat that was worthy of a title except Klitschko but he had already been defeated by fury. The same can be said of Wilder - not sure who he beat(worthy) to be rewarded with the status of champion

This is where we yet again come full circle back to lineal or Ring Champion. This is supposed to dispel all arguments and support the real champion normally the unified/undisputed champion is also lineal/ring but because AJ has never been in a fight that involves #1 #2 in the division he hasn’t been crowned although he is ranked 1 he ain’t the ring champion and therefore not lineal either.

So to be ranked lineal Champion or Ring Champion #1 It has to be fury vs Aj winner. If Fury vs Wilder 2 happens first neither can be ranked lineal until the winner fights Aj and the same goes for Aj vs wilder even though the winner of that fight would be undisputed he still wouldn’t be lineal or Ring champion until the winner faced Fury and the winner of that bought would be Ring or lineal Champion.

Bottom line is the fastest way to find the #1 heavyweight is for fury vs Joshua all other combinations need a minimum of 2 bouts

[DaaamnSon]

Exactly right. Also, being the 'Ring Magazine' champion used to have a lot more credibility until the Oscar bought it.

Oscar has no skin in the game when it comes to the heavyweight boxing so The Ring magazine champion has the same credibility as the lineal title since it can only be awarded to the winner of AJ vs Fury/Wilder (winner) simultaneously due to Fury's claim to the lineal title.

[DaaamnSon]

The problem with lineal status is there are no hard and cut rules.

If the title means "the man who beat the man," then Lennox was the last lineal champ, and that's that.

If the lineal status is vacated by retirement or "lengthy absence," then so be it...but it kinds of takes away the prestige of the title.

Exactly.

That's why AJ is right not to take it as seriously as Wilder's WBC belt. The ambiguity surrounding it has definitely made it lose it's lustre since Lewis retired.

[Gillie]

Oscar has no skin in the game when it comes to the heavyweight boxing so The Ring magazine champion has the same credibility as the lineal title since it can only be awarded to the winner of AJ vs Fury/Wilder (winner) simultaneously due to Fury's claim to the lineal title.

Good point.