People must be blind when it comes to Chavez vs. Whitaker

[KJB]

My beef with that fight is how important it was the Whitaker take the decision he earned. When its a career and legacy defining fight, you cant give a guy a draw who lost by at least three points.

[joseph5620]

how did Chavez get 'schooled' when it was a close, competitive fight? and it wasnt exactly Chavez's best performance, but I really have no idea how you can say he looked like ****.

Well that's where we disagree. I didn't think it was close at all and neither did most people who scored the fight. I had Whitaker winning 9 rounds out of 12 and he completely took the Chavez fans out of the fight leaving them almost silent. The truth is, Chavez wasn't landing many punches Whitaker either slipped them, blocked them or Chavez missed outright. Some people score points just because one fighter is aggressive and throwing punches. I don't, unless they are effective or at least landing. Whitaker beat Chavez, inside,outside and even backed him up at times. When Chavez was hitting Whitaker in the thighs, Whitaker didn't complain he just kept fighting. When Whitaker hit Chavez low, Chavez went into his hypocritical whining to the referee. He was even bullied in this fight. To me that's getting schooled.What exactly did Chavez do that impressed you?

[Steak]

Well that's where we disagree. I didn't think it was close at all and neither did most people who scored the fight. I had Whitaker winning 9 rounds out of 12 and he completely took the Chavez fans out of the fight leaving them almost silent. The truth is, Chavez wasn't landing many punches Whitaker either slipped them, blocked them or Chavez missed outright. Some people score points just because one fighter is aggressive and throwing punches. I don't, unless they are effective or at least landing. Whitaker beat Chavez, inside,outside and even backed him up at times. When Chavez was hitting Whitaker in the thighs, Whitaker didn't complain he just kept fighting. When Whitaker hit Chavez low, Chavez went into his hypocritical whining to the referee. He was even bullied in this fight. To me that's getting schooled.What exactly did Chavez do that impressed you?

Chavez landed enough right hands and body shots to win 4 or so rounds. which isnt that bad of an accomplishment considering that no one else had or would do any better against Whitaker until his fight with Rivera about 3 years later.

Chavez landed plenty of decent shots during portions of the fight, and if you think otherwise then maybe you need to rewatch the fight.

and oh yea, getting punched in the balls is a bit worse than getting hit in the hip. one or two of Whitakers low blows were pretty bad. its not really fair to expect Chavez to keep fighting through something like that.

[tredh]

116-112=schooled? are you kidding me? guess that means that Pernell was 'schooled' by Trinidad, since he lost by more than 116-112.

it amazes me that a score of 115-113 can be considered a very close fight, while a score of 116-112 means that a fighter got schooled, even though theres only a one round difference between the two scores. that makes sense, right?

what a joke.

I like how you took one part of what I said and tried to make it fit your agenda. Thats a joke! If scored 20 pts and you scored 10 pts I bust your ass but that doesn't mean you didn't make work hard to get those 20 pts. Using Whitaker vs. Trinidad is a poor example. Some people like to think Judah won the first half of the PBF fight I say he only won 3 rds the whole fight. But lets give Judah 4 rds. and PBF 8 rds. When you look at that fight did PBF not beat the **** out of Judah for those 8 rds? So basically in a fight scored 8 rds to 4 rds in favor of PBF he schooled the **** out of Judah.
Not all fights scored 116-112 means a fighter got schooled but in some cases it does. It sure does make sense when realize that every fight doesn't go the same even though it can end up having the same score.

[GTL]

Worst robbery in the history of the sport is Whitaker vs JLR. Imagine getting beat every round and NOT be competitive in any...then winning the fight. By the way, I gave JCC 4 rounds and sorry, I still gotta say JCC got schooled.

agreed..
from what i remember he was just boxing circles around him..
coming forward isn't gunna score you points..
i remember him being schooled, but i haven't seen the fight in a while

[joseph5620]

Chavez landed enough right hands and body shots to win 4 or so rounds. which isnt that bad of an accomplishment considering that no one else had or would do any better against Whitaker until his fight with Rivera about 3 years later.

Chavez was the one who was favored in this fight and considered the best fighter in the world. So "doing better than most" who fought Whitaker doesnt cut it as an accomplishment.




Chavez landed plenty of decent shots during portions of the fight, and if you think otherwise then maybe you need to rewatch the fight.

I've watched the fight plenty of times. Maybe you should specify when Chavez was landing all of these good punches. No fighter is going to go through a 12 round fight without getting hit at all. But a handful of punches in 12 rounds is not impressive. Chavez certainly wasn't landing any combinations.







and oh yea, getting punched in the balls is a bit worse than getting hit in the hip. one or two of Whitakers low blows were pretty bad. its not really fair to expect Chavez to keep fighting through something like that.

The point is, if he is going to hit another fighter low(which he typically did in his career) he has no room to complain when the fire is returned. That was typical of Chavez to do that. And he was hitting Whitaker in the hip and the thighs. You can't tell me getting hit in the thigh muscle or hip doesn't hurt.

[Steak]

I like how you took one part of what I said and tried to make it fit your agenda. Thats a joke! If scored 20 pts and you scored 10 pts I bust your ass but that doesn't mean you didn't make work hard to get those 20 pts. Using Whitaker vs. Trinidad is a poor example. Some people like to think Judah won the first half of the PBF fight I say he only won 3 rds the whole fight. But lets give Judah 4 rds. and PBF 8 rds. When you look at that fight did PBF not beat the **** out of Judah for those 8 rds? So basically in a fight scored 8 rds to 4 rds in favor of PBF he schooled the **** out of Judah.
Not all fights scored 116-112 means a fighter got schooled but in some cases it does. It sure does make sense when realize that every fight doesn't go the same even though it can end up having the same score.

Judah arguably knocked down Mayweather and gave him lots of trouble early in the fight. this just in...if another fighter gives you trouble, you didnt 'school' them. getting 'schooled' is the same thing as getting a boxing lesson, aka Mayweather vs. Baldomir. if you have to adjust to win a fight, then you didnt school the other guy, you just beat them.
Did you think Mayweather vs. De La Hoya was De La Hoya getting schooled? same scenario basically. I had Mayweather winning 116-112 in that too, and while his rounds were pretty dominant, De La Hoya's winning rounds were competitive. I sure as hell didnt think Mayweather schooled De La Hoya, but I thought he won clearly.

The point is, if he is going to hit another fighter low(which he typically did in his career) he has no room to complain when the fire is returned. That was typical of Chavez to do that. And he was hitting Whitaker in the hip and the thighs. You can't tell me getting hit in the thigh muscle or hip doesn't hurt.

getting hit in the hip does hurt, but not as much as a full on nut shot. even the toughest fighters have to take a knee after getting hit in the nuts hard, I dont know how you could possibly count that against any fighter. it doesnt matter anyway, as both of them were hitting low any way, and I dont count it against either of them, because both of them like to get low often which causes a lot of involuntary low blows by the other guy.

and Chavez landed plenty of good punches in rounds 1,2,5,6,9 and 12, the rounds he arguably won. and he landed some decent punches in almost all the other rounds too, other than 7 and 8. were they all super clean punches? no, sometimes its hard to do that against Whitaker. but every once in a while it was enough to win him the round, because Whitaker wasnt landing enough on him either.

[joseph5620]

and Chavez landed plenty of good punches in rounds 1,2,5,6,9 and 12, the rounds he arguably won.


I didn't see that at all. If you think Chavez could have won those rounds then you have no problem with the draw?

[Fox McCloud]

Dwiens made a thread very similar to this one quite a while back and he echoed exactly the same points you raised that is was a close fight and not a robbery that it is made out to be

I don't see any way that fight was a draw, at all... and yes, I do think they had the fight decided before it started, but...

Really, Whitaker won 7 clear rounds IMO.

Santa Cruz won like 10 rounds clearly against Casamayor.

Chavez did not look very good in this fight, but sheer activity won him a lot of rounds, because activity generally results in some punches being landed.

It's absurd to me that people talk about how Whitaker just dominated this fight from bell to bell... he didn't, but he also did better than a draw.

As usual, it's the happy medium between the opinions of the two extremes that is the right answer.

[TheGreatA]

The reason Chavez-Whitaker is often called the biggest robbery ever may not be because the fight was a completely dominant win that was ruled a draw but because the fight was about the number 1 and number 2 p4p ranked boxers fighting each other.

It was a big fight that ended up being a disappointment because of incompetent judging.