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Old 03-20-2018, 01:24 PM #161
Johnwoo8686 Johnwoo8686 is offline
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Originally Posted by spytactics View Post
Don't even compare flaccid floyd to Tiger or Jordan. None of the major sports news authorities do so why would you? Floyd only seems "great" because of the mediocre state that boxing has been in since the last 25 years.You go to China, Australia, Egypt, etc and they know who Jordan and Tiger are....floyd,...not even his mom knows who he is
Like you've been to all those countries..
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Old 03-20-2018, 01:33 PM #162
Johnwoo8686 Johnwoo8686 is offline
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Originally Posted by robertzimmerman View Post
Floyd was a genius in the ring.

One of the greatest of all time.

You're obviously a huge fan. But as great as he was, there's fighters who have better resumes and who are ranked higher, even though they suffered some defeats.

Again, it's okay listing the statistics, but they need to be put into context.

Floyd's performance against Marquez was great. He looked very sharp after the lay off. But you know why he gets criticised. He gets criticised because Marquez moved up, and he was deliberately cheated on the scales in order for Floyd to gain an even bigger advantage.

Yes, Floyd moved up through 5 classes. But that doesn't automatically mean that it surpasses anyone's career who didn't achieve that feat.

Regarding Floyd's size, you simply have to note that Floyd has a huge reach of 72" which gave him huge advantages over most of his opponents. It's very rare for a guy of Floyd's size possess a reach that big. That's a big wingspan. To a guy like Floyd, reach was much more important than weight. How many times was Floyd completely outsized, in terms of height, reach and weight? That's why I consider in win over Oscar as his greatest win. Because although the win over a guy like Hatton was far more entertaining, he fought him above his best weight class with a 7" reach advantage.

You seem to be obsessed with statistics. But it's not enough, until they're objectively analysed. Otherwise, Marciano was a greater fighter than Ali, and Joe Calzaghe was a greater fighter than Roy Jones.

Again, we know that Floyd was great. But you haven't been objective. If Floyd had fought a different timeline from a tougher era, then the likelihood is that the 50-0 probably wouldn't exist. If you want to make a case for him being a better fighter than a guy like Ray Leonard on a P4P basis, then that's okay. But he doesn't possess a better resume. Because quality always trumps quantity.
You clearly did not read the entirety of my post. The reason why Ali and Jones are considered greater than Marciano and Calzaghe is because they fought more championship level fights. If Marciano had the same number of championship fights as Ali had and still retired at 49-0 then yes he would be considered greater than Ali but he isn't.

Floyd won more championship level fights than Ali, Leonard, or Marciano won and still remained undefeated.
He did it while never being clearly knocked down in his whole career while all those others hit the canvas multiple times in their career.

People try to discredit Floyd by discrediting the fighters he fought while elevating fighters of the past as if those guys didn't fight their fair share of scrubs as well.
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Old 03-20-2018, 02:42 PM #163
robertzimmerman robertzimmerman is offline
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Johnwoo8686,

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You clearly did not read the entirety of my post. The reason why Ali and Jones are considered greater than Marciano and Calzaghe is because they fought more championship level fights. If Marciano had the same number of championship fights as Ali had and still retired at 49-0 then yes he would be considered greater than Ali but he isn't.
What do you class as Championship level fights?

Title defences?

Top 10 ranked opposition?

What?

You simply have to take into account the level of the opposition, instead of looking at statistics.

Quote:
Floyd won more championship level fights than Ali, Leonard, or Marciano won and still remained undefeated.
He did it while never being clearly knocked down in his whole career while all those others hit the canvas multiple times in their career.
It's always hard to compare fighters from different weights, but again, you seem obsessed by statistics.

Ray Leonard has a better resume than Floyd.

Quote:
People try to discredit Floyd by discrediting the fighters he fought while elevating fighters of the past as if those guys didn't fight their fair share of scrubs as well.
You are discrediting the fighters of the past whilst trying to elevate Floyd's opponents.

Floyd being rated as the greatest WW of all time is absolutely ridiculous.

Yes, everyone fights scrubs. It's unavoidable. But some of the greats of the past had better wins than Floyd. But instead of acknowledging that, you just get defensive and start trying to compare statistics.

Again, Floyd was a genius. But if he fought 50 times across the 70's 80's against the best fighters, then the 50-0 wouldn't have existed.
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Old 03-21-2018, 02:22 AM #164
spytactics spytactics is offline
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Originally Posted by Johnwoo8686 View Post
Like you've been to all those countries..
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Shlt reply from a shlt poster.

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Old 03-21-2018, 03:56 PM #165
Johnwoo8686 Johnwoo8686 is offline
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Originally Posted by robertzimmerman View Post
Johnwoo8686,



What do you class as Championship level fights?

Title defences?

Top 10 ranked opposition?

What?

You simply have to take into account the level of the opposition, instead of looking at statistics.



It's always hard to compare fighters from different weights, but again, you seem obsessed by statistics.

Ray Leonard has a better resume than Floyd.



You are discrediting the fighters of the past whilst trying to elevate Floyd's opponents.

Floyd being rated as the greatest WW of all time is absolutely ridiculous.

Yes, everyone fights scrubs. It's unavoidable. But some of the greats of the past had better wins than Floyd. But instead of acknowledging that, you just get defensive and start trying to compare statistics.

Again, Floyd was a genius. But if he fought 50 times across the 70's 80's against the best fighters, then the 50-0 wouldn't have existed.
As the saying goes: men lie, women lie, but numbers don't lie. At least I'm using facts and statistics to back up my claims. You simply are using opinions by saying things like "Leonard has better wins than Floyd" but not saying how they are better. Every scientific study uses facts and statistics to come up with their hypothesis but you don't want to apply that same standard when talking about boxing because it will make the guy you personally don't like seem greater.

Cotto, Canelo, Pacquiao, Mosley will all be in the hall of fame. De La Hoya and Gatti are already there. Leonard's hall of fame wins are probably Hearns, Hagler, Duran and Benitez which is four hall of famers to Mayweather's 5.

And before you say some of those guys were past prime remember that Hagler was past prime when Leonard fought him and Leonard even admitted it himself that's why he fought Hagler at that time.
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Old 03-21-2018, 04:08 PM #166
djtmal djtmal is offline
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Originally Posted by Johnwoo8686 View Post
Floyd won more championship level fights than Ali, Leonard, or Marciano won and still remained undefeated.
He did it while never being clearly knocked down in his whole career while all those others hit the canvas multiple times in their career.

.
....and nobody in their right mind would put Floyd above any of those guys p4p...
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Old 03-21-2018, 04:16 PM #167
djtmal djtmal is offline
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Originally Posted by Johnwoo8686 View Post

Cotto, Canelo, Pacquiao, Mosley will all be in the hall of fame. De La Hoya and Gatti are already there. Leonard's hall of fame wins are probably Hearns, Hagler, Duran and Benitez which is four hall of famers to Mayweather's 5.

And before you say some of those guys were past prime remember that Hagler was past prime when Leonard fought him and Leonard even admitted it himself that's why he fought Hagler at that time.
cotto, canelo, pac, and mosley combined wouldn't equal duran's rank on an atg list..add in the fact that by the time floyd decided to fight cotto, pac, and mosely, the fights are way past the past due date, this is why he falls way short compared to ali, srl, and those guys...its about who you beat, and when you beat them...i don't care what kind of spin you try to put on it so floyd gets some kind of pass...

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Old 03-21-2018, 04:19 PM #168
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Originally Posted by Johnwoo8686 View Post
Like you've been to all those countries..
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I've been to the countries he has listed, and he is right. Ironically Pacquaio is a bigger name then Mayweather is in those countries....
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Old 03-21-2018, 04:23 PM #169
djtmal djtmal is offline
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Originally Posted by Johnwoo8686 View Post
Floyd won more championship level fights than Ali, Leonard, or Marciano won and still remained undefeated.
He did it while never being clearly knocked down in his whole career while all those others hit the canvas multiple times in their career.

People try to discredit Floyd by discrediting the fighters he fought while elevating fighters of the past as if those guys didn't fight their fair share of scrubs as well.
this is funny...

you don't compare sugar ray beating a prime ko artist in hearns, to floyd fighting a sugar shane who they had to roll into the ring in a wheelchair....or a cotto or pac who had already been raked through the coals...

people don't try to discredit these guys, they can discredit them...thats the difference....
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Old 03-21-2018, 05:06 PM #170
Johnwoo8686 Johnwoo8686 is offline
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Originally Posted by strykr619 View Post
I've been to the countries he has listed, and he is right. Ironically Pacquaio is a bigger name then Mayweather is in those countries....
If social media and google are used as a measure of who is more popular he is wrong.
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