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Old 12-25-2017, 12:10 AM #21
Luilun Luilun is offline
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Originally Posted by Cutthroat View Post
There were only bums in the 00's HW scene. As soon as A level fighters like Wilder, AJ, and Fury showed up the Klitschkos lost, Vitali as well to an old Lewis. The fact is both bros lost to the ONLY A level fighters they ever fought.

Who was the best HW outside the Klit bros that the division produced? Sam Peter? He was one of the most dangerous and best heavies of the Klit bros era and that dude got schooled by James Toney in their 1st fight that is how bad the division was. Who else, blown up cruiser Haye that arguably lost to Valuev? Valuev was another guy, arguably lost to Holyfield & Ruiz. There is not a single contender from that era that was better than Wilder, AJ, Tyson Fury, Ortiz, Parker, Hughie Fury, or even Breazeale.
The Klitchkos are over 40 years old you retard
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Old 12-25-2017, 12:30 AM #22
Shontae De'marc Shontae De'marc is offline
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Originally Posted by Cutthroat View Post
There were only bums in the 00's HW scene. As soon as A level fighters like Wilder, AJ, and Fury showed up the Klitschkos lost, Vitali as well to an old Lewis. The fact is both bros lost to the ONLY A level fighters they ever fought.

Who was the best HW outside the Klit bros that the division produced? Sam Peter? He was one of the most dangerous and best heavies of the Klit bros era and that dude got schooled by James Toney in their 1st fight that is how bad the division was. Who else, blown up cruiser Haye that arguably lost to Valuev? Valuev was another guy, arguably lost to Holyfield & Ruiz. There is not a single contender from that era that was better than Wilder, AJ, Tyson Fury, Ortiz, Parker, Hughie Fury, or even Breazeale.
If they are A level then Wlad must be S level. He embarrassed Wilder in sparring so much that Wilder never fought him, Tyson Fury is a big man with talent but he beat a 39 year old man, and AJ went life and death with 41 year old Wlad who was out of the ring for a year and a half and AJ got dropped.

If Wlad from 5 years ago was there or even younger, he'd have beaten them both IMO. Fury is a maybe because his style is just difficult, but a guy like AJ who is there to be hit would get schooled.

I think the Wlad vs AJ fight made it clear that either;
A) Wlad is THAT good and has been underrated all these years
OR
B) AJ is overrated and a B level fighter at best

I hear people talking about inactivity all the time when it's been a year and Wlad was out for a year and a half plus he was 41 and put on a show. I think he just made his opponents look like crap all these years which can happen when you have a dominant champ and no means for comparison
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Old 12-25-2017, 12:35 AM #23
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wladimir's competition is underrated, u can't stay on top for 10 years fighting bums. he just made them all look avg.
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Old 12-25-2017, 01:23 AM #24
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Originally Posted by Luilun View Post
The Klitchkos are over 40 years old you retard
Wlad picked up a top 3 win on his resume and looked dominant as ever vs Pulev at 39.

Wlad was a -500 favorite to defeat Fury.

Wlad came in at his lightest weight since 2009 against Joshua.

Wlad was not a shot fighter no matter how much you pretend he was. He did not carry a beer belly like a Foreman or Holmes, he was not violently KO'd by Fury just out boxed.
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Old 12-25-2017, 01:41 AM #25
Cutthroat Cutthroat is offline
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Originally Posted by Shontae De'marc View Post
If they are A level then Wlad must be S level. He embarrassed Wilder in sparring so much that Wilder never fought him, Tyson Fury is a big man with talent but he beat a 39 year old man, and AJ went life and death with 41 year old Wlad who was out of the ring for a year and a half and AJ got dropped.

If Wlad from 5 years ago was there or even younger, he'd have beaten them both IMO. Fury is a maybe because his style is just difficult, but a guy like AJ who is there to be hit would get schooled.

I think the Wlad vs AJ fight made it clear that either;
A) Wlad is THAT good and has been underrated all these years
OR
B) AJ is overrated and a B level fighter at best

I hear people talking about inactivity all the time when it's been a year and Wlad was out for a year and a half plus he was 41 and put on a show. I think he just made his opponents look like crap all these years which can happen when you have a dominant champ and no means for comparison
Sparring is completely different than a real life fight, even guys like Tyson have been dropped by nobodies, ggg dropped Kovalev, etc.

Wilder was too young and inexperienced to be fighting Wlad, he's barely peaking as a fighter right now in his mid 30's. He does not have the amateur background most guys do and that hurt him greatly.

Joshua himself was inexperienced as well, 3.5 years pro and he kicked Wlad's ass. AJ punched himself out due to inexperience, Wlad won 3-4 rounds before AJ regained his composure and stopped him.

Go through the history books and you'll see just how many HOF caliber fighters that inexperienced have been dropped by journeymen let alone a former champion and puncher like Wlad.

Ward was getting dropped that early in his career. ggg had been rocked by that Mexican guy that early in his career, Canelo had been rocked by Cotto's brother that early in his career, Kovalev had been dropped that early in his career etc.


Wlad picked up arguably his best win at HW EVER over Pulev in a masterclass fashion a few months prior to fighting Fury and was a huge favorite at -500 over Fury.
Wlad was as dominant as ever vs Pulev a few months earlier but vs Fury he was suddenly shot?

Wlad was his lightest weight since '09 vs AJ, he was still in phenomenal physical condition, not at his peak as a fighter but not shot either. AJ is farther away from his peak that Wlad was from his.

Wlad is the most disciplined HW of all time, that is what separates him from past heavies that have gotten fat and declined rapidly.

Last edited by Cutthroat; 12-25-2017 at 01:46 AM.
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Old 12-25-2017, 01:42 AM #26
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Rocky Marciano? Can anyone confirm this? Not a historical boxing buff but I hear it all the time that his opponents were cans and Louis was retirement age. The same is said about Tyson. I'd rather think they were just so powerful they made look good opponents look ordinary. Like Liston, prior to his win over the great Patterson.
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Old 12-25-2017, 04:05 PM #27
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u can't stay on top for 10 years fighting bums.
Yes you can. Fighting bums makes it easier to stay on top.
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Old 12-25-2017, 10:59 PM #28
Mr Objecitivity Mr Objecitivity is offline
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Yes you can. Fighting bums makes it easier to stay on top.
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The word 'bum' has no meaning until someone provides a specific definition of that term.
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Old 12-25-2017, 11:07 PM #29
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Originally Posted by Cutthroat View Post
There were only bums in the 00's HW scene. As soon as A level fighters like Wilder, AJ, and Fury showed up the Klitschkos lost, Vitali as well to an old Lewis. The fact is both bros lost to the ONLY A level fighters they ever fought.

Who was the best HW outside the Klit bros that the division produced? Sam Peter? He was one of the most dangerous and best heavies of the Klit bros era and that dude got schooled by James Toney in their 1st fight that is how bad the division was. Who else, blown up cruiser Haye that arguably lost to Valuev? Valuev was another guy, arguably lost to Holyfield & Ruiz. There is not a single contender from that era that was better than Wilder, AJ, Tyson Fury, Ortiz, Parker, Hughie Fury, or even Breazeale.

Who the hell are you to decide who is or isn't an 'A' level fighter? It's very convenient to claim that whenever they lost, their opponents were A level boxers that beat them.

Your points are purely subjective and opinion based. So far, you've provided no proof as to how today's heavyweight era is any better than Klitschkos era. It's more like when the Klitshckos were young and dominant, the Brits and Americans (along with ever other nation) failed to produce any boxer capable enough to dethrone the Klitschkos from their dominance. It's no coincidence that Klitschko was dethroned only when he was around the age of 40.

How do we know for sure if Anthony Joshua is any better than Samuel Peter? Exactly! Samuel Peter didn't have the luxury of facing a 40 year old Wladimir Klitschko like Fury and Joshua did.

Quote:
There is not a single contender from that era that was better than Wilder, AJ, Tyson Fury, Ortiz, Parker, Hughie Fury, or even Breazeale.
I see, no evidence or proof provided for your claims. Right, I can also go along with your fairy tale too.

Sultan Ibragimov, Ruslan Chagaev, Chris Byrd, Calvin Brock, Lamon Brewster and Eddie Chambers are all just as good, if not better than all those boxers you've mentioned combined.



Quote:
Wlad picked up a top 3 win on his resume and looked dominant as ever vs Pulev at 39.

Wlad was a -500 favorite to defeat Fury.

Wlad came in at his lightest weight since 2009 against Joshua.

Wlad was not a shot fighter no matter how much you pretend he was. He did not carry a beer belly like a Foreman or Holmes, he was not violently KO'd by Fury just out boxed.

He knocked Pulev out. Yes, but that was mainly because Pulev's emotion got the better of him that night. Doesn't change the fact that Wladimir Klitschko was still at an age when boxers decline in athletic performance. Power is the last thing that goes and Wlad's power made the difference that night, not his boxing skills.

Wlad's decline was evident in his bout against Bryant Jennings. A type of opponent that he would barely even get hit by or lose a round against. Which wasn't the case. He beat better boxers than Bryant Jennings when he was younger, more convincingly and more dominantly by getting hit less and by losing fewer rounds. Especially those who used a similar style of Bryant Jennings.

He may have been a favorite against Fury, but he was still clearly past his best and he was bound to lose eventually. It doesn't matter the fact that he was a favorite. Mike Tyson was also a favorite to beat Danny Williams but got knocked out.

Also, this is heavyweight boxing and not a Hollywood contest. Someone's weight doesn't have any direct correlation to the quality of their performance. Wlad weighed 220 pounds (one if his lightest weight) and lost against Ross Purity by gassing. There is no evidence that Wlad at 240 pounds is any better than Wlad at 250 pounds or around that mark. That's just your baseless assumption. A beer belly doesn't prevent someone from being conditioned to perform well. In other words, a fat 30 year old boxer could perform better than a skinny 41 year old boxer.

No matter how much you try to state otherwise, age does play a factor. You're trying to convince others that a 6 foot 6, 240+ pound athlete who has been boxing for 2 decades for 69 bouts isn't going to be affected by age? Let that sink in! We're not talking about a flyweight but a super heavyweight here who's body is far more vulnerable to injury due to more mass and subsequently more demand. After all those years, you want to believe that Wladimir Klitschko at age 40 hasn't declined at all, despite all his training camps year in year out and despite the decline in motivation from having other priorities in life after becoming older and despite the decline in reflexes after someone reaches their late 30's? If so, you are delusional.

You're erroneously correlating someone's weight / physical appearance to their level of performance which is totally a false assumption to begin with and then ignoring the possibility that a 41 year old athlete could be declining through aging because their physical appearance is of a specific type. Utter Ridiculousness!

Let us know where Anthony Joshua, Tyson Fury or Deontay Wilder are at when they are also 38 years of age and 41 years of age. Until then, age does play a factor and age played a factor in Wlad's defeat to Fury and Joshua. If Fury and Joshua can do better against the best possible opponents when they are also at that age, then I might change my mind.
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Old 12-25-2017, 11:45 PM #30
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RE: Wlad. IMO:

Legite wins:
- Tony Thompson twice (and he was legite at the time, one loss)
- David Haye when he was legite, and made Haye look scared for half the fight
- Chris Byrd (who'd only lost to a roided up Ike Ibeabuchi, and he subsequently beat Tua)

Wlad's questionable wins that are still good resume builders:
- Pulev (I don't rate him that highly but many do)
- Povetkin (blatant holding, but still won none-the-less)
- Chagaev (very good fighter but realistically too short to challenge someone like Wlad)
- Hasim Rahman (too old at that stage in his career)
- Bryant Jennings (looked a bit average in doing so)

On top of that went toe-to-toe with the new top heavyweight in Joshua, at the age of 41. I think that's a pretty good career.

Personally I like the fact that he has shown utter professionalism throughout his career, speaks three languages fluently, has never tested positive for PEDs and has a PhD. Maybe that makes me biased.
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