Is Joe Frazier really an ATG?

[Elroy1]

You have yet to mention one fact, nor any anecdotal information and despite this you claim, due to something only you and your lover Welterschmaltz seem able to percieve, that modern heavyweights are vastly superior.

You know how stupud you is? some people conveniently use only the facts that support their argument and disregaard the other ones....you don't even have those facts! To date you claim that:

a) old methods of training were so vastly inferior...this despite the rounds fought, the condition of the fighters, and the many informed experienced trainers. Your objectvity? "I saw a tape in mom's basement!"

Old methods of training were absolutely inferior. The rounds fought then actually detract from the importance of skills and powerful movements as it becomes more of an endurance based event. The notion also that more rounds = better conditioned boxers is also a total fallacy as I have myth busted on this very forum many many times before. Also it's a no brainer that there are more informed and experienced trainers today than ever before. Today's trainers concentrate on specialist aspects of a fighter like skills or S&C whereas in the past they were the same person. They are also likely to be more dedicated as they usually take on the role as their sole occupation.

My objectivity? Boxers and trainers and sports scientists have taken all that had been learned before and continued to build on it from generation to generation producing superior athletes in the sport as time evolves. Also the talent pool for the sieve of competition has grown immeasurably.

In every measurable aspect of an athletes conditioning in boxing, todays fighters leave past ones for dead. Even on a crude eye test we see what today looks like an ordinary school boy vs a modern elite athlete.

Some specific examples of improvement?

- Focus Mitts
- Strength Training
- HIIT training

just to name a few, I have written many extensive articles on this issue already, as you are no doubt aware and have explained all of it in excrutiating detail with no credible argument tot he contrary which is to be expected because I cannot foresee how any argument is really possible!

b) FIghters punch so much harder now. Again....proof?

Firstly, can you prove that your favourites like Foreman, Shaver, Dempsey etc hit harder? Of course not intrinsically because we don't have them measured on pressure pads! So at BEST we can expect a stalemate.

Secondly, common sense says that YOUR old favourites LOOK weaker in film and picture and fight much weaker looking opponents.

Thirdly however, by backing up the visual evidence, the statistical evidence against your favourites is compelling, KO stats of Tyson, Lewis and both Klitschko's for example destroys anything from the pre-professional eras. Any denial of such proof is straight up nut baggery.

c) fighters are in much better condition now....despite the facts which show a general decline in how fighters are prepared, you claim other wise.

All evidence, every single shred proves not only that fighters are in better condition now, but that they blow old school condition so far out of the water that they would not even be considered professional boxers today.. EVEN the chubby HW boxers!!! And even the hulking bodybuilder ones that gas through lack of oxygen. Their overall performance is superior.

d) NUtritional supplements have made superior athletes...really? this despite the evidence that has shown that there are virtually no supplements that scientifically show improvement in any great degree...but leroy knows best!

I to some degree agree that there is flimsy evidence in favour of MANY supplements but taken collectively OF COURSE supplements are more than beneficial otherwise teams would not waste endless money on them.

You are so ridiculous that ridiculous people blush around you! You make Charlie Z seem like a cogent individual!

And thank you for your further trolling..

This myth, and all the other myths you promote, have been throughly busted!

[Elroy1]

BUMP

I encourage ALL readers to familiarise themselves with the arguments presented in this thread in response to continued appraisal of the boxer Joe Frazier lately..

Frazier is a bum at the foundation of the nut bag mythology.

The mere reliance on this guy is enough to totally dismiss any nut bag..

This thread crushingly describes WHY and serves as a basis for why I should not need to re-explain myself time and again to the nut bag with a very poor memory.

[b00g13man]

Frazier not an ATG, but Wlad is?

Byrd and Haye in the HOF?

Why am I not surprised?