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Old 11-01-2017, 02:59 PM #111
Robbie Barrett Robbie Barrett is offline
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Originally Posted by Sheldon312 View Post
Manny wasn't really big enough for 147 Floyd wasn't big enough for 154 but he fought at that weight anyways. I don't like the excuses. For as much **** as Jones gets :for not fighting the best at his peak" he sure took a chance by going up and being the bigger Luiz at HW. That's like Charlo going up and beating Parker or Wilder.
Weren't those guys dehydrating 20lbs to make their divisions? Hagler wasn't, he was a real MW. Some WW's weigh as much as Hagler did on fight night.
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Old 11-01-2017, 03:01 PM #112
Sheldon312 Sheldon312 is offline
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Originally Posted by djtmal View Post
so, just because those guys grew out of the divisions they were in, doesn't have any negative reflection on hagler...

it wasn't like hagler was starving himself to stay down in a division...with same day weigh in, he often marked below 160...
That's beside the point. There was no "great" natural Middleweights at 160 during that time. All his big fights were against guys who came up from lightweight or welterweight. IF he was in a division where there was a Julian, Gerald, TOney, Roy, Monzon then I could understand him not going up.
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Old 11-01-2017, 03:15 PM #113
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Originally Posted by Sheldon312 View Post
That's beside the point. There was no "great" natural Middleweights at 160 during that time. All his big fights were against guys who came up from lightweight or welterweight. IF he was in a division where there was a Julian, Gerald, TOney, Roy, Monzon then I could understand him not going up.
There were a lot of tough fighters at 160 then.Hamso,sibsion,mugabi(that night he could have beaton a lot very good fighters)Plus the fought a murders row of good fighters before he won title.(all those tough philly middles)And when a guy keeps a div hostage for so long it makes the other fighters maybe not look so good.But I believe if it was not for Hagler there would be a lot of guys from that era that would have been more popular.(they would have become champs and got more press).
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Old 11-01-2017, 03:19 PM #114
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Originally Posted by Kagami Taiga View Post
He fought at a time where there were same day weigh ins and where the next above division was 175lbs...which was essentially the division BEFORE Heavy. I think that about covers it.
This........
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Old 11-01-2017, 03:29 PM #115
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Originally Posted by Robbie Barrett View Post
There was no 168 division, he would have had to jump from 160-175. Do you see the size of Hagler compared to todays MW's?


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And they say Golovkin is small.
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The thread starter is a result of what happens when someone just starts to watch boxing and repeats bs they hear others say without knowing the facts. Plus Hager fought in an era of same day weigh ins. So he was disciplined.

I agree with you, but people are stupid.
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Old 11-01-2017, 03:35 PM #116
djtmal djtmal is offline
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Originally Posted by Sheldon312 View Post
That's beside the point. There was no "great" natural Middleweights at 160 during that time. All his big fights were against guys who came up from lightweight or welterweight. IF he was in a division where there was a Julian, Gerald, TOney, Roy, Monzon then I could understand him not going up.
Strange, a lot of the writers and historians said Hagler's mw era was one of the deepest, and Hagler was the last man standing after the smoke cleared. He also had early losses and draws that he had to avenge before he hit his stride...
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Old 11-01-2017, 05:38 PM #117
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This is what's wrong with today's boxing fan. Monzons best wins came against smaller men in Napoles and Griffith.
My thoughts exactly. Benvenuti was a fantastic win too though. Hagler was only 5 ft 9 as well he weren't some giant of a MW. Monzon for me is the greatest MW of all time but Hagler ain't far behind him. Both were forces of nature.
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Old 11-01-2017, 08:00 PM #118
TonyGe TonyGe is offline
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Obv a debuting Norton would not trouble Ali at that time(Williams fight was Ali at best).But if the Norton that fought Ali COULD fight the Ali of late 60s I think he still gives him some trouble just not as much.It was Norton's jab that gave Ali fits. He was just a bad style for Ali.
I agree. Norton may not have done as well but he would give Ali problems.
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Old 11-01-2017, 08:06 PM #119
TonyGe TonyGe is offline
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Originally Posted by Sheldon312 View Post
Manny wasn't really big enough for 147 Floyd wasn't big enough for 154 but he fought at that weight anyways. I don't like the excuses. For as much **** as Jones gets :for not fighting the best at his peak" he sure took a chance by going up and being the bigger Luiz at HW. That's like Charlo going up and beating Parker or Wilder.
So who was Hagler supposed to fight at 175. Spinks was much bigger and one of the best LH of all time. John Ruiz wasn't even close to Spinks in talent. It's not a good comparison.
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Old 11-01-2017, 08:12 PM #120
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hagler made his career fighting kell brooks and willie monroes. he even lost to one of the kell brooks moving up. i would say he was a bum or fringe bum
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