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Old 11-18-2019, 09:01 AM #71
Zaroku Zaroku is online now
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Keep it up man.  This is too EZ.  They ley a lot of shit go in here, but racism isn't 1 of them.  I'm flagging everyone of your comments.  If mega doesnt ban u, Boston will.  Racism is not allowed on here.  So keep writing, I'll keep flagging then I' - HAMMER77777 Thought so.  Quiet now, huh?  Move along, I am done with you. - HAMMER77777 No hard feelings man.  If you're ever near North Dakota, u are welcome to have SOme Beer with my wife and I.  Take care, enjoy your visit to India.  You will see more of it than I ever have. - HAMMER77777 Dude, seriously.  If u can click on VBUCKS menu, u can delete that rude shit I sent u.  I apologize.  You're OK, I'm sorry I insulted you.  I really am. - HAMMER77777 dey hatın, we makin! - Floyd's Mask 
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Originally Posted by CauliflowerEars View Post
Well written, articulated, and explained. Any reasonable or objective person can see that you are not confused, but are studied and well informed.

There are numerous modern publications that elaborate and detail the gaps or errors in Darwin's Origin of Species as well as his Theory of Evolution. A good bit of his work is helpful regarding the general idea of "evolution" and how natural selection works, but in fact his widely accepted Origins of Man models have been disproven by modern science.
The fact that people still argue that Evolution has been "tested and proven true", just reinforces the principle that in our search for God, we discover that man wants to be God. He always has, and always will. Peace.
Cosmic evolution: the origin of time, space, and matter from nothing in the “big bang”
Chemical evolution: all elements “evolved” from hydrogen
Stellar evolution: stars and planets formed from gas clouds
Organic evolution: life begins from inanimate matter
Macro-evolution: animals and plants change from one type into another
Micro-evolution: variations form within the “kind”

Many people use variations within a kind, like a horse kind, or a dog kind to try to expand that definition to mean men came from monkeys.

we have similar building blocks, but different,
we have 23 pairs of chromosomes.
In humans, each cell normally contains 23 pairs of chromosomes, for a total of 46. Twenty-two of these pairs, called autosomes, look the same in both males and females. The 23rd pair, the sex chromosomes, differ between males and females.6 days

primates have 24

24 pairs
Evolutionarily speaking, why do humans have 46 chromosomes. In humans, each cell normally contains 23 pairs of chromosomes, for a total of 46. Monkeys, chimpanzees, and Apes have 24 pairs (twenty-four pairs), for a total of 4

a theory out there is a pair or 2 of the 24 pairs, joined leaving 23 pairs. making humans.

apparently God, or Space aliens needed our labor, or some chit, but needed to make us smarter, but only to a point..

anyway, i am sure you have heard this stuff before..

peace brother.
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Old 11-18-2019, 10:22 AM #72
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Originally Posted by GGG Gloveking View Post
You said it was exhaustively tested. I'm interested in finding out the results and the scope of the experiments of this exhaustive testing.

And it doesn't take a lot of space to evolve a paramecium into a tapeworm.
Yes Gloveking it’s been tested. The math in the theory has been tested, the movement of the galaxies, the rate of expansion, the cosmic radiation left from the Big Bang (something we didn’t have the technology to measure at the time), all has been exhaustively tested. As technology has improved so has our ability to to measure and test for these things and ALL have validated the theory.

None of this requires that scientist go into a lab and recreate a universe, star, plant or asteroid. You asking for this makes me question if you’re just trolling.
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Old 11-18-2019, 01:10 PM #73
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Originally Posted by Zaroku View Post
Cosmic evolution: the origin of time, space, and matter from nothing in the “big bang”
Chemical evolution: all elements “evolved” from hydrogen
Stellar evolution: stars and planets formed from gas clouds
Organic evolution: life begins from inanimate matter
Macro-evolution: animals and plants change from one type into another
Micro-evolution: variations form within the “kind”

Many people use variations within a kind, like a horse kind, or a dog kind to try to expand that definition to mean men came from monkeys.

we have similar building blocks, but different,
we have 23 pairs of chromosomes.
In humans, each cell normally contains 23 pairs of chromosomes, for a total of 46. Twenty-two of these pairs, called autosomes, look the same in both males and females. The 23rd pair, the sex chromosomes, differ between males and females.6 days

primates have 24

24 pairs
Evolutionarily speaking, why do humans have 46 chromosomes. In humans, each cell normally contains 23 pairs of chromosomes, for a total of 46. Monkeys, chimpanzees, and Apes have 24 pairs (twenty-four pairs), for a total of 4

a theory out there is a pair or 2 of the 24 pairs, joined leaving 23 pairs. making humans.

apparently God, or Space aliens needed our labor, or some chit, but needed to make us smarter, but only to a point..

anyway, i am sure you have heard this stuff before..

peace brother.
Mah man ! - I recall we brought up the discussion of "kinds" before. I mentioned the Australian author, Kenneth Ham.
I'm all for looking into different theories, but I find it strange when intelligent people believe 'evolution' has been tested and 'proven'. Just like carbon dating; there are so many variables.... People actually believe we can determine if something is "millions of years" old.
I was born at night....but C'mon..

Peace bruh
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Old 11-18-2019, 01:41 PM #74
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Keep it up man.  This is too EZ.  They ley a lot of shit go in here, but racism isn't 1 of them.  I'm flagging everyone of your comments.  If mega doesnt ban u, Boston will.  Racism is not allowed on here.  So keep writing, I'll keep flagging then I' - HAMMER77777 Thought so.  Quiet now, huh?  Move along, I am done with you. - HAMMER77777 No hard feelings man.  If you're ever near North Dakota, u are welcome to have SOme Beer with my wife and I.  Take care, enjoy your visit to India.  You will see more of it than I ever have. - HAMMER77777 Dude, seriously.  If u can click on VBUCKS menu, u can delete that rude shit I sent u.  I apologize.  You're OK, I'm sorry I insulted you.  I really am. - HAMMER77777 dey hatın, we makin! - Floyd's Mask 
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Originally Posted by CauliflowerEars View Post
Mah man ! - I recall we brought up the discussion of "kinds" before. I mentioned the Australian author, Kenneth Ham.
I'm all for looking into different theories, but I find it strange when intelligent people believe 'evolution' has been tested and 'proven'. Just like carbon dating; there are so many variables.... People actually believe we can determine if something is "millions of years" old.
I was born at night....but C'mon..

Peace bruh
Yeah, we never did finish that talk about ken ham.

Going to get there someday, but until then, peace.

I give a lot of these guys a hard time. I do not mean to do so, but poking holes in things, is kinda easy.

I went to a darwin exhibit years ago, when it was here in Tokyo, and I left thinking, wow, he got a lot wrong.

peace bruh..
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Old 11-19-2019, 11:21 AM #75
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Yes Gloveking it’s been tested. The math in the theory has been tested, the movement of the galaxies, the rate of expansion, the cosmic radiation left from the Big Bang (something we didn’t have the technology to measure at the time), all has been exhaustively tested. As technology has improved so has our ability to to measure and test for these things and ALL have validated the theory.

None of this requires that scientist go into a lab and recreate a universe, star, plant or asteroid. You asking for this makes me question if you’re just trolling.
I'm sorry you think I'm trolling. Unfortunately for me, it isn't sufficient to say math has been tested, and be satisfied with that. We're not talking about math, we're talking about life, and existence. We're talking about something extremely complex, extremely intricate. (I say the complexity of the cosmos is evidence of a Designer per se)

I'll try to summarize my position. If science is asking you to believe our planet came from thin air, without having created some type of rock from thin air, then there is a certain level of faith and guesswork attached. If science is asking you to believe that a rock came to life, without having recreated such in a controlled environment (I do find it interesting that scientists, who conduct intelligently designed experiments in intelligently designed controlled environments argue against intelligent design), then there is a certain amount of faith and guesswork attached. And finally, if science is asking you to believe that an amoeba became a person, without having evolved said amoeba into anything more complex (I won't even get into the fact that the scientists should have to do so without the luxury of an intelligently designed experiment or controlled environment), then there is a certain amount of faith and guesswork attached.

Last edited by GGG Gloveking; 11-19-2019 at 11:24 AM.
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Old 11-19-2019, 01:03 PM #76
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Originally Posted by GGG Gloveking View Post
I'm sorry you think I'm trolling. Unfortunately for me, it isn't sufficient to say math has been tested, and be satisfied with that. We're not talking about math, we're talking about life, and existence. We're talking about something extremely complex, extremely intricate. (I say the complexity of the cosmos is evidence of a Designer per se)

I'll try to summarize my position. If science is asking you to believe our planet came from thin air, without having created some type of rock from thin air, then there is a certain level of faith and guesswork attached. If science is asking you to believe that a rock came to life, without having recreated such in a controlled environment (I do find it interesting that scientists, who conduct intelligently designed experiments in intelligently designed controlled environments argue against intelligent design), then there is a certain amount of faith and guesswork attached. And finally, if science is asking you to believe that an amoeba became a person, without having evolved said amoeba into anything more complex (I won't even get into the fact that the scientists should have to do so without the luxury of an intelligently designed experiment or controlled environment), then there is a certain amount of faith and guesswork attached.
I don’t think science makes you believe the planet came from thin air or that a rock came to life my friend. I don’t understand why you keep making that conclusion. True, we don’t yet know what caused the Big Bang, or where the energy for it came from. However we do know from observation, measurements, testing, and yes math what happened afterwards. All verifiable, and this is what the Big Bang theory actually teaches.

Just because there are gaps in our knowledge and understanding doesn’t mean we discredit what we do understand and know to be true. After all we don’t yet know everything about the human brain, but that doesn’t mean we discredit the things we do know about it.

It may very well be possible that an intelligent designer put all this into motion, but until now it cannot be validated. Cannot be measured or observed using the scientific method. Until that can happen, it shouldn’t be taught in schools with other theories that can meet that requirement. It doesn’t mean it can’t be taught at home, a religious class or even as philosophy.

As far as evolution, the reason we know it happened Gloveking is because of the extensive research. Scientist didn’t just one day decide on evolution as a concept, it was studied, researched, peer reviewed; it’s why it was accepted. The evidence is in that we have dug through miles of sedimentary rock, over the years we have found thousands of fossils of species who we can clearly see evolutional progression over time. The deeper we dig (meaning older the rock)the more simplistic we find the species, the higher(younger rock)the more complex. Either a new species is being killed off and a new one is being created every time to look very similar to one that came before it, or it’s a clear progression of the species evolution. We also see it in plants, bacteria, viruses etc. When the technology of using DNA became available it was tested against the theory and it validated even further. Had it been all nonsense you’d expect the DNA to show it. Had an animal just appear out of thin air, it would complete shatter the theory. We’ve yet to discover this though.

The reason it’s impossible to ask scientist to evolve a living thing into another is because it’s a process that takes years and impossible to recreate the environment that cause the gradual changes over time. The reason we can’t find the instant moment one animal transforms into another is because there isn’t one. Every animal is a transition of what came before and what will come after. To make it simpler it would be like finding the exact moment where a baby transformed into a grown man. There isn’t one. Instead what you can find is the gradual progression.

Closing this out, just like with the Big Bang we don’t yet know HOW life on earth first started. We don’t yet know where those first cells formed nor how, but just like with the Big Bang we know what happened afterwards.

You can say an intelligent designer began it and placed all the things in motion that cause evolution, but again it can’t be validated and this has no place in a science class. Religion, philosophy, social science yes.

Last edited by JJRod; 11-19-2019 at 05:22 PM.
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Old 11-19-2019, 01:30 PM #77
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Originally Posted by GGG Gloveking View Post
Scientist haven't concluded where matter came from (or when and where life began). But the fact of the matter is we are here. And since science doesn't have the answer, it requires a little bit of faith. This goes back to one of my original points. Don't ridicule my faith, then require me to have faith in your system.
The science doesnt ridicule anyones religious faith.
You can have faith in science in the sense that it actually works. Its not about accepting a belief.

And yes, we dont know where matter came from. And we can have faith that science will one day figure it out, but thats different from having faith that you already know the answer.


Quote:
In your other post, which I didn't quote, you mention science being about exploring the unknown. I agree, science is about finding the answers, not already having them. To find the answers, scientists make a guess, and then try to make observations and analysis to support that guess. That was the original point in my first post in this thread. That science is literally about making a guess.
The discussion about guessing, was to do with the idea that the big bang is just as much a result of guess work as is the belief in creation.
Which isnt true.

It was explained that a scientist making educated guesses is very different from guessing what happened based on personal beliefs.
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Old 11-19-2019, 01:43 PM #78
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Originally Posted by Zaroku View Post
Cosmic evolution: the origin of time, space, and matter from nothing in the “big bang”
Chemical evolution: all elements “evolved” from hydrogen
Stellar evolution: stars and planets formed from gas clouds
Organic evolution: life begins from inanimate matter
Macro-evolution: animals and plants change from one type into another
Micro-evolution: variations form within the “kind”

Many people use variations within a kind, like a horse kind, or a dog kind to try to expand that definition to mean men came from monkeys.

we have similar building blocks, but different,
we have 23 pairs of chromosomes.
In humans, each cell normally contains 23 pairs of chromosomes, for a total of 46. Twenty-two of these pairs, called autosomes, look the same in both males and females. The 23rd pair, the sex chromosomes, differ between males and females.6 days

primates have 24

24 pairs
Evolutionarily speaking, why do humans have 46 chromosomes. In humans, each cell normally contains 23 pairs of chromosomes, for a total of 46. Monkeys, chimpanzees, and Apes have 24 pairs (twenty-four pairs), for a total of 4

a theory out there is a pair or 2 of the 24 pairs, joined leaving 23 pairs. making humans.

apparently God, or Space aliens needed our labor, or some chit, but needed to make us smarter, but only to a point..

anyway, i am sure you have heard this stuff before..

peace brother.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CauliflowerEars View Post
Mah man ! - I recall we brought up the discussion of "kinds" before. I mentioned the Australian author, Kenneth Ham.
I'm all for looking into different theories, but I find it strange when intelligent people believe 'evolution' has been tested and 'proven'. Just like carbon dating; there are so many variables.... People actually believe we can determine if something is "millions of years" old.
I was born at night....but C'mon..

Peace bruh
Ken ham is the one who thinks lions were vegetarians on Noahs Ark.

He seems to rely on the Bible as the irrefutable word of God and has stated nothing can make him question it.

His whole belief in "kinds" is based on his religious faith.

So i wouldnt take too much of what he says seriously.


Have you looked into why people believe we can date things millions of years old?
Do you understand the process?
Im just ondering if its a case of questioning certain science that contradicts your religious faith or whether its a scientific criticism.
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Old 11-19-2019, 02:07 PM #79
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Keep it up man.  This is too EZ.  They ley a lot of shit go in here, but racism isn't 1 of them.  I'm flagging everyone of your comments.  If mega doesnt ban u, Boston will.  Racism is not allowed on here.  So keep writing, I'll keep flagging then I' - HAMMER77777 Thought so.  Quiet now, huh?  Move along, I am done with you. - HAMMER77777 No hard feelings man.  If you're ever near North Dakota, u are welcome to have SOme Beer with my wife and I.  Take care, enjoy your visit to India.  You will see more of it than I ever have. - HAMMER77777 Dude, seriously.  If u can click on VBUCKS menu, u can delete that rude shit I sent u.  I apologize.  You're OK, I'm sorry I insulted you.  I really am. - HAMMER77777 dey hatın, we makin! - Floyd's Mask 
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Originally Posted by The Noose View Post
Ken ham is the one who thinks lions were vegetarians on Noahs Ark.

He seems to rely on the Bible as the irrefutable word of God and has stated nothing can make him question it.

His whole belief in "kinds" is based on his religious faith.

So i wouldnt take too much of what he says seriously.


Have you looked into why people believe we can date things millions of years old?
Do you understand the process?
Im just ondering if its a case of questioning certain science that contradicts your religious faith or whether its a scientific criticism.
i qm no fan of ken ham. he is crazy.
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Old 11-19-2019, 04:33 PM #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaroku View Post
i qm no fan of ken ham. he is crazy.
Ha. That's the thing about "crazy". It's all relative and not always a bad thing. I've been called crazy, stupid, naďve, gullible, a door mat, and a lot worse, for the way I live my life and for what I believe.
The people that I've helped, befriended, served, and loved don't subscribe to that same attitude.

I suppose my questions are influenced to a degree by my faith, but speakers like Ravi Zacharias, Kenneth Ham, Alistair Begg, and others have enlightened me as to the apologetics in the science of intelligent design and the sovereignty of God. Science is undoubtedly important and should be taught.
The Student Religious Liberties Act is a wise move, imo. To be graded on substance and relevance simply means that a student may totally have the ability to parrot or grasp certain concepts being taught, but they reserve the right to disagree with said theories (or answer adversely), when based on religious or spiritual beliefs.
It's a personal thing, an intimate thing, and I respect any and everyone's right to their beliefs, as long as it's not directly threatening my family. Sure it's my wish that everyone I know would see what I see and have a new heart, but I'm not offended by the discord in the atmosphere.
I do however bail out of debates and quarrels as it pertains to personal faith or the lack of. I am not here to convince anyone of anything, and when you say you like it, well I'll say I love it.
One thing an earlier post had absolutely correct is that creationism does in fact involve faith. If I believe solely because I was shown convincing evidence, then I'm not really exercising faith. That's the key. There must be a measure of faith, or the relationship does not beget the authenticity nor produce the power it's capable of. Peace.
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