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Old 03-19-2018, 11:06 AM #121
Mr Objecitivity Mr Objecitivity is offline
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Originally Posted by JAB5239 View Post
In terms of accomplishment shouldn't Louis be number one since he had 25 consecutive title defenses in a one title era?

And what do you base Vitally being number 3 on?
Not REALLY! Since majority of Joe Louis's wins were against opponents who wouldn't even be classified as a 'heavyweight' by modern standard. I.E. Boxers weighing below 200 pounds and therefore being a cruiser weight / light heavyweight by modern standard.

Furthermore, Joe Louis for the most part, defeated opponents with losing records, or double digit losses in their records or opponents with 25% or more losses out of their career record.

Who you beat matters more and Vitali Klitschko has defeated MORE REAL heavyweights MORE frequently that were more proven and had better records than Joe Louis did.
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Old 03-19-2018, 12:42 PM #122
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Originally Posted by Mr Objecitivity View Post
Not REALLY! Since majority of Joe Louis's wins were against opponents who wouldn't even be classified as a 'heavyweight' by modern standard. I.E. Boxers weighing below 200 pounds and therefore being a cruiser weight / light heavyweight by modern standard.

Furthermore, Joe Louis for the most part, defeated opponents with losing records, or double digit losses in their records or opponents with 25% or more losses out of their career record.

Who you beat matters more and Vitali Klitschko has defeated MORE REAL heavyweights MORE frequently that were more proven and had better records than Joe Louis did.
Sorry, this is to ridiculous to even respond to.
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Old 03-19-2018, 03:03 PM #123
sugar ray lenrd sugar ray lenrd is offline
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Lol! What a waste of time that would be to argue this pure retardedness.
Go back to your world bro. I want no part of it.
Fair enough, I just had to give you my input. Most of Vitaly's opponents weren't murderer's row either; Corrie Saunders, Danny Williams, Samuel Peters, Juan Carlos Gomez, Chris Arreola, Kevin Johnson, Albert Sosnowski, went the distance w/2010 Shanon Briggs (12 years after Lennox ko'd him in 5), Olanier Solis, Thomas Adamek, Dereck Chisora, Manuel Charr Not one HOF. Not one ATG. Really??? I mean I do give any champion his due especially defending his title so many times. But who really mention these guys? Riddick Bowe would've whip that Arse. HolyField was a warrior see his fights with Lennox was legendary went 12 rounds twice w/ lennox. Four years later Vitaly didn't make it past 6 rds against Lennox.
So...Yeah stay in your world.
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Old 03-19-2018, 03:14 PM #124
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Originally Posted by Mr Objecitivity View Post
So because someone has a different opinion to others regarding something as subjective as boxers from different eras, it somehow translates to 'lunacy' according to you?
Basically it means you're just stupid if you can't distinguish the skill set between George Foreman and Sam Peter. Translate that any way you want.
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Old 03-19-2018, 03:21 PM #125
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Fair enough, I just had to give you my input. Most of Vitaly's opponents weren't murderer's row either; Corrie Saunders, Danny Williams, Samuel Peters, Juan Carlos Gomez, Chris Arreola, Kevin Johnson, Albert Sosnowski, went the distance w/2010 Shanon Briggs (12 years after Lennox ko'd him in 5), Olanier Solis, Thomas Adamek, Dereck Chisora, Manuel Charr Not one HOF. Not one ATG. Really??? I mean I do give any champion his due especially defending his title so many times. But who really mention these guys? Riddick Bowe would've whip that Arse. HolyField was a warrior see his fights with Lennox was legendary went 12 rounds twice w/ lennox. Four years later Vitaly didn't make it past 6 rds against Lennox.
So...Yeah stay in your world.
That ends the discussion right there lol.
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Old 03-19-2018, 03:36 PM #126
sugar ray lenrd sugar ray lenrd is offline
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For sure! I believe Vitali Klitschko would be favored heavily over any opponent Mike Tyson has faced and beaten. However, that's beside the point though, isn't it?

The real question is, do you think there existed any boxer in history who could've achieved what Mike Tyson achieved AT heavyweight that had the same physical dimensions as Mike Tyson in terms of height, reach and weight? No other boxer who had the same physical dimensions as Mike Tyson ever achieved the same feats against modern sized super heavyweights that Mike Tyson has. This is not even in dispute!

Do I think Mike Tyson would've beaten any and every boxer ever? Absolutely not! However, I think Mike Tyson would be favorite over any boxer pre-1980 and I would mainly favor top modern heavyweights over Mike Tyson.

I don't think any version of Larry Holmes would've beaten Mike Tyson. Same thing with Muhammad Ali. You could claim Holmes was old and past his prime against Mike Tyson. However, an even older Larry Holmes went on to defeat prime Ray Mercer more convincingly than Lennox Lewis did and gave prime Evander Holyfield a far tougher fight than he could ever give Mike Tyson. So for that reason alone, Mike Tyson deserves tremendous credit and props for his 4th round KO win over Larry Holmes and especially due to being the only boxer to have KO'ed Larry Holmes in Holme's illustriously long career.

Pound for pound and inch for inch, Mike Tyson is the greatest heavyweight of all time However, in an absolute sense, he would be too small and would therefore be inferior to the modern skilled super heavyweights.
Sorry But I had to partially resent this to make sure you get it...

Most of Vitaly's opponents weren't murderer's row either; Corrie Saunders, Danny Williams, Samuel Peters, Juan Carlos Gomez, Chris Arreola, Kevin Johnson, Albert Sosnowski, Vitaly went the distance w/2010 Shanon Briggs (12 years after Lennox ko'd him in 5), Olanier Solis, Thomas Adamek, Dereck Chisora, Manuel Charr Not one HOF. Not one ATG. Really??? I mean I do give any champion his due especially defending his title so many times. But who really mention these guys?

I truly believe that Trevor Berbick, Pinklon Thomas, James Bonecrusher Smith, Frank Bruno, Razor Ruddick, Carl Williams & the Buster Douglas that beat Tyson is much better then any of those guys that Vitaly defended his title to.

Riddick Bowe would've whip that Arse. HolyField was a warrior see his fights with Lennox they are legendary! Went 12 rounds twice w/ lennox. Four years later Vitaly didn't make it past 6 rds against Lennox.
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Old 03-19-2018, 06:44 PM #127
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Originally Posted by sugar ray lenrd View Post
Fair enough, I just had to give you my input. Most of Vitaly's opponents weren't murderer's row either; Corrie Saunders, Danny Williams, Samuel Peters, Juan Carlos Gomez, Chris Arreola, Kevin Johnson, Albert Sosnowski, went the distance w/2010 Shanon Briggs (12 years after Lennox ko'd him in 5), Olanier Solis, Thomas Adamek, Dereck Chisora, Manuel Charr Not one HOF. Not one ATG. Really??? I mean I do give any champion his due especially defending his title so many times. But who really mention these guys? Riddick Bowe would've whip that Arse. HolyField was a warrior see his fights with Lennox was legendary went 12 rounds twice w/ lennox. Four years later Vitaly didn't make it past 6 rds against Lennox.
So...Yeah stay in your world.
Lol! Holyfield cleanly lost almost every fkn round vs. Lennox and was out landed like 2 to 1 in both fights!
On the flip side, Lennox , coming off one of his best wins against Tyson, was out landed by 50 punches through 6 rounds and lost 4 out of 6 rounds to Vitali! News flash, nobody ever was beating Lewis in rounds and landed more punches before that. And you want to talk about Briggs? He weighed 40 lbs. more than when he faced Lewis and no longer had a neck! And even still, Vitali landed a record number of punches against him and put him in the hospital for 2 weeks! Oh and Vitali beat several undefeated fighters, including a gold medalist by KO in 1 round! Vitali's opponents had an average of 1.5 losses when he beat them in his title fights. Go back and look at the records of Vitali's opponents and go look at the records of the guys Ali fought and come back here educated. Then talk more ignorant [email protected] You're delusional and that pale skin tone has you deluded I guess.

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Old 03-19-2018, 07:02 PM #128
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Originally Posted by Mr Objecitivity View Post
Not REALLY! Since majority of Joe Louis's wins were against opponents who wouldn't even be classified as a 'heavyweight' by modern standard. I.E. Boxers weighing below 200 pounds and therefore being a cruiser weight / light heavyweight by modern standard.

Furthermore, Joe Louis for the most part, defeated opponents with losing records, or double digit losses in their records or opponents with 25% or more losses out of their career record.

Who you beat matters more and Vitali Klitschko has defeated MORE REAL heavyweights MORE frequently that were more proven and had better records than Joe Louis did.
Fake news.

Louis didn't make one defense against a losing record. Just looking through his list of title defenses the lowest win % was around 65-68%.

Also, fights above 175 back in those days were officially Heavyweight fight so you can't go and not count them now. You may not count hall of famers or whatnot but it's usually a solid measuring stick and Joe Louis defeated 8 different hall of fame fighters for I believe 10 wins. His only losses were to fighters who ended up in the hall of fame and the only one against a non-great (Max Schmeling) was brutally avenged. That's a solid reference for how good he was especially relative to his era especially when you add that longest ever single reign at any weight with the most defenses at any weight and all were undisputed. Also, the eye test helps Louis too given how good he was.
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Old 03-20-2018, 04:35 PM #129
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Lol! Holyfield cleanly lost almost every fkn round vs. Lennox and was out landed like 2 to 1 in both fights!
On the flip side, Lennox , coming off one of his best wins against Tyson, was out landed by 50 punches through 6 rounds and lost 4 out of 6 rounds to Vitali! News flash, nobody ever was beating Lewis in rounds and landed more punches before that. And you want to talk about Briggs? He weighed 40 lbs. more than when he faced Lewis and no longer had a neck! And even still, Vitali landed a record number of punches against him and put him in the hospital for 2 weeks! Oh and Vitali beat several undefeated fighters, including a gold medalist by KO in 1 round! Vitali's opponents had an average of 1.5 losses when he beat them in his title fights. Go back and look at the records of Vitali's opponents and go look at the records of the guys Ali fought and come back here educated. Then talk more ignorant [email protected] You're delusional and that pale skin tone has you deluded I guess.

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Boxing Goat:
Lol! Holyfield cleanly lost almost every fkn round vs. Lennox and was out landed like 2 to 1 in both fights!

Sugar Ray Lenrd:
GTFOH!!! both fights were epic Lewis should've won the 1st & Holyfield should've won the 2nd. I hope you understand that out landing an opponent (punch stats) doesn't always tell the proper story in a fight, Stats mean little. Stats can often be a misrepresentation of what really happened. In other words punch stats don't mean a damn thing.

Boxing Goat:
On the flip side, Lennox , coming off one of his best wins against Tyson, was out landed by 50 punches
through 6 rounds and lost 4 out of 6 rounds to Vitali! News flash, nobody ever was beating Lewis in rounds and landed more punches before that.

Sugar Ray Lenrd:
First of all, this version of Tyson was washed up & done, In other words If this version of Tyson fought any version of George Foreman He would've been ko'd in 1 round. Unlike going 8 rds w/ Lennox, to which Vitaly could't go past 6 rds.
Errr Holyfield seem to have won the 2nd fight so that answers your last sentence, landing more punches again don't mean a damn thing.

Boxing Goat:
And you want to talk about Briggs?
He weighed 40 lbs. more than when he faced Lewis and no longer had a neck! And even still, Vitali landed a record number of punches against him and put him in the hospital for 2 weeks!

Sugar Ray Lenrd:
Yes I want to talk about Briggs! Welcome to my domain! Of course he weighed 40 lbs more than when he met Lewis... IT WAS FREAKING 12 YEARS LATER!!!, he was older & fatter & slower...which tends to mean you're not fighting the best of Briggs in his prime. So what you landed a record number...AND???!!! Oh..Wow...he sent an old man like Briggs to the hospital...great accomplishment.

Boxing Goat:
Oh and Vitali beat several undefeated fighters, including a gold medalist by KO in 1 round! Vitali's opponents had an average of 1.5 losses when he beat them in his title fights.
Go back and look at the records of Vitali's opponents and go look at the records of the guys Ali fought and come back here educated.

Sugar Ray Lenrd:
Okaaaay...lets take a look here...
Juan Carlos Gomez - had 1 loss by ko in the 1st rnd before he fought Vitaly...Wow very fierce contender.
Samuel Peters - Fought Who??? HOF or ATG???
Danny Williams - 3 loses before he fought Vitaly, 1 was by tko
Corrie "who" Saunders - 2 loses before he fought Vitaly, HOF or ATG???
Chris Arreola - Really???!!!, valiant fighter...but come on!
Kevin Johnson - Again...Really???!!! HOF or ATG???
Alber Sosnowski - ??????? HOF or ATG???
Shanon Briggs - His greatest win! 12 years after Lewis fight, he fights Vitaly and goes the distance 12 rounds. These are all Briggs lost prior to fighting Vitaly. Briggs was KO'd by Darroll Wilson in the 3rd round, Ko'd by Lennox in the 5th round, lost dec to Sedrick Fields, Jameel McCline, Sulton Ibragimov & had a draw with Frans Botha.... Lord have mercy....

Boxing Goat:
Then talk more ignorant [email protected] You're delusional and that pale skin tone has you deluded I guess.

Sugar Ray Lenrd:
Son, when you talk to a grown up show some respect, especially if they're debating you & not disrespecting you. Delusional & pale skin???... Ali's record speaks for itself he beat legends! Do not compare a washed up Shanon Briggs, or a unskilled fighter like Arreola who can't even throw a proper straight right hand. You just can't compare these guys to Foreman, Shavers, Frazier, Norton, Lyle, Paterson, Liston, George Chuvalo, Jerry Quarry...

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Old 03-20-2018, 05:31 PM #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sugar ray lenrd View Post
Boxing Goat:
Lol! Holyfield cleanly lost almost every fkn round vs. Lennox and was out landed like 2 to 1 in both fights!

Sugar Ray Lenrd:
GTFOH!!! both fights were epic Lewis should've won the 1st & Holyfield should've won the 2nd. I hope you understand that out landing an opponent (punch stats) doesn't always tell the proper story in a fight, Stats mean little. Stats can often be a misrepresentation of what really happened. In other words punch stats don't mean a damn thing.

Boxing Goat:
On the flip side, Lennox , coming off one of his best wins against Tyson, was out landed by 50 punches
through 6 rounds and lost 4 out of 6 rounds to Vitali! News flash, nobody ever was beating Lewis in rounds and landed more punches before that.

Sugar Ray Lenrd:
First of all, this version of Tyson was washed up & done, In other words If this version of Tyson fought any version of George Foreman He would've been ko'd in 1 round. Unlike going 8 rds w/ Lennox, to which Vitaly could't go past 6 rds.
Errr Holyfield seem to have won the 2nd fight so that answers your last sentence, landing more punches again don't mean a damn thing.

Boxing Goat:
And you want to talk about Briggs?
He weighed 40 lbs. more than when he faced Lewis and no longer had a neck! And even still, Vitali landed a record number of punches against him and put him in the hospital for 2 weeks!

Sugar Ray Lenrd:
Yes I want to talk about Briggs! Welcome to my domain! Of course he weighed 40 lbs more than when he met Lewis... IT WAS FREAKING 12 YEARS LATER!!!, he was older & fatter & slower...which tends to mean you're not fighting the best of Briggs in his prime. So what you landed a record number...AND???!!! Oh..Wow...he sent an old man like Briggs to the hospital...great accomplishment.

Boxing Goat:
Oh and Vitali beat several undefeated fighters, including a gold medalist by KO in 1 round! Vitali's opponents had an average of 1.5 losses when he beat them in his title fights.
Go back and look at the records of Vitali's opponents and go look at the records of the guys Ali fought and come back here educated.

Sugar Ray Lenrd:
Okaaaay...lets take a look here...
Juan Carlos Gomez - had 1 loss by ko in the 1st rnd before he fought Vitaly...Wow very fierce contender.
Samuel Peters - Fought Who??? HOF or ATG???
Danny Williams - 3 loses before he fought Vitaly, 1 was by tko
Corrie "who" Saunders - 2 loses before he fought Vitaly, HOF or ATG???
Chris Arreola - Really???!!!, valiant fighter...but come on!
Kevin Johnson - Again...Really???!!! HOF or ATG???
Alber Sosnowski - ??????? HOF or ATG???
Shanon Briggs - His greatest win! 12 years after Lewis fight, he fights Vitaly and goes the distance 12 rounds. These are all Briggs lost prior to fighting Vitaly. Briggs was KO'd by Darroll Wilson in the 3rd round, Ko'd by Lennox in the 5th round, lost dec to Sedrick Fields, Jameel McCline, Sulton Ibragimov & had a draw with Frans Botha.... Lord have mercy....

Boxing Goat:
Then talk more ignorant [email protected] You're delusional and that pale skin tone has you deluded I guess.

Sugar Ray Lenrd:
Son, when you talk to a grown up show some respect, especially if they're debating you & not disrespecting you. Delusional & pale skin???... Ali's record speaks for itself he beat legends! Do not compare a washed up Shanon Briggs, or a unskilled fighter like Arreola who can't even throw a proper straight right hand. You just can't compare these guys to Foreman, Shavers, Frazier, Norton, Lyle, Paterson, Liston, George Chuvalo, Jerry Quarry...
What a bunch of nonsense. Lewis DOMINATED Holyfield in both fights. It's well documented. No use in disputing that, it just makes you seem even more clueless. When Tyson lost to Lewis he was younger than when Lewis beat Vitali and had not lost in over 5 years, since Holyfield. You fools will say anything to diminish Vitali's shellacking of Lewis! lol!!!

Do the analysis of Ali's opponents records in title fights now......I dare you. Can you not imagine how bad Vitali would be dogged if he fought a guy that had 11 losses like Chuvalo or Cooper? How about if he fought Wepner and let him last 14 plus rounds? He would never live it down. You only know the names of Ali's opponents because they fought him. lol
Quarry lol Chuvalo lol Cooper lol Folley lol London lol Bonevana lol Bugner lol Coopman lol Young ........lost to 6-0 Spinks @ 36 lol! Give me a break.
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