Who would you say impacated boxing more Dempsey or Jack Johnson?

[JAB5239]

Dempsey was more iconic and revered. Johnson had the bigger impact.

[Willie Pep 229]

The question asked survived for only 4 one line posts then slipped into the same old argument you guys have been at since time immemorial.

My two cents:

Impact on style . . . Dempsey
Impact on purses/gates/attendance, i.e. fan popularity . . . Dempsey
social impact/awareness of the fight game's importance, culturally . . . Johnson


P.S. I agree with the others who disagree with TonyGe . . . it was Joe Louis who made the racial break through that opened the door for some social justice in the game. Jack Johnson put black HWs (all Black fighters for that matter) in the weeds for two decades. (And yes, you don't need to read between the lines, I am saying it was half his fault and half a racist society's fault.) The man was an insufferable ass-hole.

[TonyGe]

- -Sam Langford was making more $ as the more popular fighter of the people.

I get Ketchal and Philly Obrien, but not Kaufman and the like. Facts are he didn't really make much until Jeffries, at which point he seemed to retire until Willard in Cuba.

He lived in Paris where Sam and Joe Jeanette made major stopovers for big $

In any event I think it's a notable and had a big impact on boxing more so than Dempsey.

[travestyny]

The man was an insufferable ass-hole.

What did he do that made him an ass-hole? Live his life?

[Willie Pep 229]

What did he do that made him an ass-hole? Live his life?

Lets see, just off the top of my head . . .

he marries Etta Terry Duryea, whom he beats on several times, to the extent of emergency room care, then after she eats a gun he sees her suicide only as a convenience (saving time and money on divorce) and two days after her burial he announces he engagement to 18 years old Lucille Cameron . . . and just in case there is anyone left with a moral compass, who doesn't already despise him, he proceeds (much to the delight of the White Supremacist newspapers) to then bang on Lucille and put her in the emergency room on several occasions.

Of course all this 'white woman' stuff comes about because he makes it a habitual to disdain and insult ALL black women by saying (over and over again) that they are ALL thieves and whores and swearing he would never touch another Black woman as long as he lives.

Yea T, you're right he was just living his life, the life of a creep.

[GhostofDempsey]

As a sport overall I would say Dempsey. In fact outside of Ali, there is no other fighter in history who has impacted boxing as much. He launched boxing's popularity to a degree that his own popularity and celebrity status surpassed that of Babe Ruth and the sport of baseball. Broke several records for attendance and gate money, and was an iconic figure in boxing. His boxing style ushered in the modern era of boxing. His aggressive yet defensive style made him popular with fans, even though Dempsey wasn't really revered or loved by fans until he lost the first fight to Tunney, yet he still managed to take boxing to the next level. Johnson could be credited with paving the way for future black champions like Louis, but he didn't do or accomplish enough as champion to have a true impact on the sport. If Johnson never existed chances are Langford would have been known as the first black champion in all likelihood and far more revered and respected.

[travestyny]

Lets see, just off the top of my head . . .

he marries Etta Terry Duryea, whom he beats on several times, to the extent of emergency room care, then after she eats a gun he sees her suicide only as a convenience (saving time and money on divorce) and two days after her burial he announces he engagement to 18 years old Lucille Cameron . . . and just in case there is anyone left with a moral compass, who doesn't already despise him, he proceeds (much to the delight of the White Supremacist newspapers) to then bang on Lucille and put her in the emergency room on several occasions.

Of course all this 'white woman' stuff comes about because he makes it a habitual to disdain and insult ALL black women by saying (over and over again) that they are ALL thieves and whores and swearing he would never touch another Black woman as long as he lives.

Yea T, you're right he was just living his life, the life of a creep.

Ah, regarding domestic abuse. Fair enough.

But do you give the same treatment to Dempsey who many believe dislocated his wife's jaw and claimed she tripped over a door frame?

[Willie Pep 229]

Ah, regarding domestic abuse. Fair enough.

But do you give the same treatment to Dempsey who many believe dislocated his wife's jaw and claimed she tripped over a door frame?

Did you ever hear the one about Dempsey being a professional rapist?

That he supposedly worked (around the age of 19) for a pimp, where he would brutally rape whores who got out of line.

I wonder if there is any truth to that one!

But . . . are you arguing that Dempsey's wrong makes Johnson OK?

Here's another one for you. In a country (France) bent on embracing people of color, e.g Josephine Baker, Battling Siki, Joe Jeannette, Sam Langford, he repeatedly appeared at his own Vaudeville performances so unprepared and disinterested that he reduced his performances to nothing more than celebrity pan-handling, so much so that the French elites eventually booed him off the stage ending his Vaudeville career.


P.S. Sorry messed up Joe Jeannette's name.

[travestyny]

Did you ever hear the one about Dempsey being a professional rapist?

That he supposedly worked (around the age of 19) for a pimp, where he would brutally rape whores who got out of line.

I wonder if there is any truth to that one!

But . . . are you arguing that Dempsey's wrong makes Johnson OK?

Here's another one for you. In a country (France) bent on embracing people of color, e.g Josephine Baker, Battling Siki, Jean Jeannette, Sam Langford, he repeatedly appeared at his own Vaudeville performances so unprepared and disinterested that he reduced his performances to nothing more than celebrity pan-handling, so much so that the French elites eventually booed him off the stage ending his Vaudeville career.

I'm not saying it makes him right. I'm saying it shows a double standard when you don't throw Dempsey under the bus for busting his Wife's jaw. Or being her pimp. Or using bicycle tape to cut up Willard. Maybe they were both scumbags

Did you hear the one about Dempsey being unaware that his ex-wife was a prostitute? Yet he apparently lived with her in a "house of ill-repute."

“In his autobiographies, he tries to portray himself as a love-struck kid who didn’t know she was a prostitute until after he was married. Will somebody please give me a break? He met her on Salt Lake City’s Commercial Street, which was the city’s red-light district. He was no innocent boy. He had been on his own for at least five years, living and fighting in the Wild West towns that existed mainly so that cowboys and miners could drink, play poker and get laid. In his autobiography, Jack wrote that he couldn’t understand why Maxine left him. The reason is that she was scared ****less of Dempsey because he dislocated her ****ing jaw.”

https://thisbrutalglory.com/2018/07/...willard-fight/

Being a poor vaudeville performer wouldn't make him an ass-hole. lol.

[joseph5620]

The question asked survived for only 4 one line posts then slipped into the same old argument you guys have been at since time immemorial.

My two cents:

Impact on style . . . Dempsey
Impact on purses/gates/attendance, i.e. fan popularity . . . Dempsey
social impact/awareness of the fight game's importance, culturally . . . Johnson


P.S. I agree with the others who disagree with TonyGe . . . it was Joe Louis who made the racial break through that opened the door for some social justice in the game. Jack Johnson put black HWs (all Black fighters for that matter) in the weeds for two decades. (And yes, you don't need to read between the lines, I am saying it was half his fault and half a racist society's fault.) The man was an insufferable ass-hole.

So it's Johnson's fault that other black fighters weren't given an earned shot at the heavyweight championship?


Sometimes I feel like I'm in the twilight Zone on this site.