DEBATE: Jimmy Deforest's Quotation Regarding Dempsey's Hand Wraps

[travestyny]

I would say this pic doesn't answer the tape question, but if the fighters were gloved in the ring, the loaded glove theory seems very unlikely.

They were gloved in the ring, but taped in the dressing rooms. Willard had asked to be taped in the ring, and Tex Rickard agreed to that. Then Dempsey's manager Kearns protested that idea, and Rickard changed his mind. Willard also said that he would insist that very little tape be used. Only enough to keep the gauze in place. That was obviously denied because more than one person spoke of Dempsey being heavily taped from his wrist to his fingers, as you can see.

And again, this is about the tape hardening. If it were bicycle tape, as Charles Samuel said, and a tape that hardens once gloved, as the trainer said, then that tells the tale. Its not simply a matter of showing the tape. It is about the nature of the tape. The trainer said the tape hardens after the gloves are put on, Charles Samuel who worked closely with Ned Brown who was in the dressing room said bicycle tape was used, which according to the article presented would have hardened after time, and Grantland Rice mentioned that it was Dempsey's custom to use bicycle tape.

Contrast this fight with the fight vs. Tunney, where bicycle tape was PROHIBITED. They had their hands taped inside the ring, which is precisely what Willard wanted.

[travestyny]

The hat was still popular for the Carpentier fight in 1921 - but for the most part disappears after that, by the late twenties you see many more cloth hats. The straw hat seems to have been big 1900-1920. Kind of an extended fad like plaid suits, I guess.

Crazy how it seemed EVERYONE had that particular style hat. Man. Pretty crazy.

It has been interesting looking at at these times for so many different reasons.

[mickey malone]

Ok, but here is the thing, Mickey. You have avoided my question time and time again.

Why would the trainer lie? Why would Charles Samuel lie? Why would Grantland Rice lie? Why would there be an article 9 years before the fight that described this very same process?

And again, even you said the use of bicycle tape would have been an unfair advantage, but before even reading any of the info, you decided Dempsey would have never used it. That’s not being unbiased, you must admit.

All I wanted you to answer is why all those people would lie.

Nothing kangaroo court about this. I can point to various people who agree with me. I’ll edit the post with people who agree in a bit. But just want you to answer why all of the above would lie then we can drop it.

By the way, I appreciate you participating without getting heated. A few jabs at me but nothing major (and some added humor as well which is always appreciated!) and I do recognize lots of people seem to get very upset during convos for no apparent reason. Much respect for that. I’ve enjoyed the discussion, especially with you and Dempsey-Louis. Also with Battling Nelson who helped this along a lot, though the debate never came off after I was prodded to make the thread over and over again by a no show.

Not said anyone lied, merely the fact that various sports writers over the years have confused the issue with a lot of conjecture

As already agreed the tape was declared legal at the time, and yes, referring back to my opening sentence,
I also had become a little confused

So fair play for digging up all the info, it's been very helpful
Though being from an engineering background, am still curious as to what the hardening adhesive consisted of The tape I used on my bike as a kid was very similar to electrical insulating tape, pliable as well as sticky.
Don't know if it hardened in a glove or not, but I am aware that electrical tape does if it's used anywhere near an oven or a boiler, as do all adhesives in a warm environment. Knew we'd get there in the end, many thanks for the education

[travestyny]

Not said anyone lied, merely the fact that various sports writers over the years have confused the issue with a lot of conjecture

As already agreed the tape was declared legal at the time, and yes, referring back to my opening sentence,
I also had become a little confused

So fair play for digging up all the info, it's been very helpful
Though being from an engineering background, am still curious as to what the hardening adhesive consisted of The tape I used on my bike as a kid was very similar to electrical insulating tape, pliable as well as sticky.
Don't know if it hardened in a glove or not, but I am aware that electrical tape does if it's used anywhere near an oven or a boiler, as do all adhesives in a warm environment. Knew we'd get there in the end, many thanks for the education

Much respect, brotha. Looking forward to the next convo we have on one of the various topics around these parts!

[travestyny]

Its common sense that tightly wrapping your hands in a large amount of tape will make your fist harder and heavier, you can try it yourself with duct tape let alone bicycle tape.
I would take the first hand accounts of the fighters who actually had experience using and fighting against opponents using loaded hand wraps (tape method) more seriously than random people on a boxing forum with no experience of using loaded wraps or taking a punch from such wraps.

Just redirecting your quotation here since this was to be where the debate would take place. The guy who requested over and over the debate was a no-show, along with another dude that claimed the information was debunked.

The thread in the thunderdome turned into nothing but insults and personal attacks. But thank you for taking your time to even comment. Respect.

[GOLDKING]

Just redirecting your quotation here since this was to be where the debate would take place. The guy who requested over and over the debate was a no-show, along with another dude that claimed the information was debunked.

The thread in the thunderdome turned into nothing but insults and personal attacks. But thank you for taking your time to even comment. Respect.

There was nothing to debate, loaded wraps using the tape method is a recorded fact of boxing history with first hand accounts from multiple fighters.

[OctoberRed]

Not said anyone lied, merely the fact that various sports writers over the years have confused the issue with a lot of conjecture

As already agreed the tape was declared legal at the time, and yes, referring back to my opening sentence,
I also had become a little confused

So fair play for digging up all the info, it's been very helpful
Though being from an engineering background, am still curious as to what the hardening adhesive consisted of The tape I used on my bike as a kid was very similar to electrical insulating tape, pliable as well as sticky.
Don't know if it hardened in a glove or not, but I am aware that electrical tape does if it's used anywhere near an oven or a boiler, as do all adhesives in a warm environment. Knew we'd get there in the end, many thanks for the education

Drop that knowledge Mickey.

[mickey malone]

Drop that knowledge Mickey.

Obtaining 100% reliable facts from 100 yrs ago is always a difficult ask

traestyny has gone to exceptional lengths in order to present his case, and it's interesting stuff

Am aware the products i've mentioned are not remotely connected to boxing but the physical properties remain the same.. Though I seriously doubt anyone on here's old enough to know the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

Therefore can fully understand any posters reluctance of becoming too involved, but just as a point of interest.
What's your take on the subject?

[joeandthebums]

Good thread with some great posts.

[OctoberRed]

Obtaining 100% reliable facts from 100 yrs ago is always a difficult ask

traestyny has gone to exceptional lengths in order to present his case, and it's interesting stuff

Am aware the products i've mentioned are not remotely connected to boxing but the physical properties remain the same.. Though I seriously doubt anyone on here's old enough to know the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

Therefore can fully understand any posters reluctance of becoming too involved, but just as a point of interest.
What's your take on the subject?

I'm sure that a lot of the old-timers, especially back then, took a few shortcuts - whether they knew it or not. The mob had their ****s around the sport back then and they made sure their horse won.