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Old 05-20-2019, 02:03 PM #11
BrometheusBob. BrometheusBob. is offline
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Originally Posted by 1bad65 View Post
What will help black children the most in terms of getting a good education is to allow their parents school choice.

Yet Democrats fight tooth and nail against school choice.

Their loyalties lie with the Teachers Union (and its massive campaign chest) over the education of black children.

And as long as blacks let them do it, they'll keep doing it.
And yet school choice here in NYC has resulted in fewer and fewer minority students passing the entrance exams required for the city's specialized high schools.

Yawn. Any more talking points you wish to add to the discussion?
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Old 05-20-2019, 02:17 PM #12
1bad65 1bad65 is offline
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And yet school choice here in NYC has resulted in fewer and fewer minority students passing the entrance exams required for the city's specialized high schools.

Yawn. Any more talking points you wish to add to the discussion?
First, you must back that claim with source citations.

Second, if they have true choice as I advocate and the scores went down for the students who chose different schools as you claim, the solution is beyond simple....

Simply have those students choose to go back to their previous schools.

Problem solved.


Maybe next time think about what you're saying for a bit, rather than just trying to be witty and snarky.

You're not very good at that anyway.
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Old 05-20-2019, 02:18 PM #13
1bad65 1bad65 is offline
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And yet school choice here in NYC has resulted in fewer and fewer minority students passing the entrance exams required for the city's specialized high schools.

Yawn. Any more talking points you wish to add to the discussion?
What's your solution to the problem?
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Old 05-20-2019, 02:35 PM #14
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Originally Posted by BrometheusBob. View Post
And yet school choice here in NYC has resulted in fewer and fewer minority students passing the entrance exams required for the city's specialized high schools.

Yawn. Any more talking points you wish to add to the discussion?
Colleges are considering giving some students ďadversity pointsĒ to boost their SAT scores to compensate for poverty and other socioeconomic factors. Perhaps, NY should adopt a similar program to boost acceptance rates for these elite schools.
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Old 05-20-2019, 02:46 PM #15
BrometheusBob. BrometheusBob. is offline
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Colleges are considering giving some students “adversity points” to boost their SAT scores to compensate for poverty and other socioeconomic factors. Perhaps, NY should adopt a similar program to boost acceptance rates for these elite schools.
Nah, they just need to do better to identify high achieving students early and move them into more challenging classes/schools.

NYC used to do better with this and there were many more minority students passing the SHSAT to get into the top high schools in the 90s. The fact that the exam hasn't changed since then but the demographic profile of the students who pass has changed indicates a problem with the way the school system has been handled over the last 20 years.

There did use to be a program called "Discovery" whereby students barely missing the cutoff exam score for the specialized high schools would be admitted and made to take summer coursework before starting the school year. It's my impression that this was mostly used for immigrant students with very high math test scores and average english scores, but I think may also have included top students from weaker schools.

I wouldn't advocate for a race-based or income-based adjustment of test scores. The latter is more justifiable but misguided.

Last edited by BrometheusBob.; 05-20-2019 at 02:59 PM.
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Old 05-20-2019, 02:52 PM #16
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Colleges are considering giving some students ďadversity pointsĒ to boost their SAT scores to compensate for poverty and other socioeconomic factors. Perhaps, NY should adopt a similar program to boost acceptance rates for these elite schools.
A good idea because the problem with school choice is the exams required to gain entrance disproportionally help non minority students who come from wealth.

Just like the SAT's, there are test taking courses, books, tutors and specialists that help boost scores. All of them cost money that a poor family doesn't have. They may be located a good distance that requires travel expenses that a poor family may not have.

Rich parents also have more access to teachers and school administrators by being able to volunteer for the PTA and other school committees.
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Old 05-20-2019, 03:10 PM #17
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A good idea because the problem with school choice is the exams required to gain entrance disproportionally help non minority students who come from wealth.

Just like the SAT's, there are test taking courses, books, tutors and specialists that help boost scores. All of them cost money that a poor family doesn't have. They may be located a good distance that requires travel expenses that a poor family may not have.

Rich parents also have more access to teachers and school administrators by being able to volunteer for the PTA and other school committees.
I was kind of lucky to have gotten my Kaplan SAT prep covered. They were running a thing at my high school where low income students, like myself at the time, could get the course for free. It was definitely helpful.

Now if I was gonna invest any money into the education system, it would be on stuff like that. Tutoring/test prep services that would make the lives of low-income students easier if they actively take advantage of them.
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Old 05-20-2019, 03:18 PM #18
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I was kind of lucky to have gotten my Kaplan SAT prep covered. They were running a thing at my high school where low income students, like myself at the time, could get the course for free. It was definitely helpful.

Now if I was gonna invest any money into the education system, it would be on stuff like that. Tutoring/test prep services that would make the lives of low-income students easier if they actively take advantage of them.
I purchased 3 prep books and studied my ass off because I was working and playing ball so I had to do what I had to do. Hard work like that builds character but there are people that can't even afford that.

The thing people forget is all these entrance exams and national tests have created ancillary businesses that favor wealthy kids. School choice is great if there is real choice. But what parent is not going to choose the best school?

Wealth also plays a key role in who gets accepted even when scores are equal.

They need to find ways to attract the best and brightest, regardless of income and race. I saw that you wouldn't advocate for a race-based or income-based adjustment of test scores but you need something that offsets the advantages non minorities and the rich have in a school choice system.
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Old 05-20-2019, 03:20 PM #19
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Yet impoverished ESOL Asian kids who came here with just the clothes on their backs busted tail in school and got into elite universities.

We even have kids who were educated in 3rd World countries coming here to attend elite universities they qualified to attend.

Quit making excuses for failure.

Because until you do, you'll keep seeing the same failures.


One more thing, arent part of teachers jobs to teach kids how to perform well on standardized tests??

It was in my day. Has that changed and teachers no longer do that?
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Old 05-20-2019, 03:24 PM #20
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And yet school choice here in NYC has resulted in fewer and fewer minority students passing the entrance exams required for the city's specialized high schools.
You gonna prove that assertion sometime soon?

I figured with such smugness you surely had some data to cite....

If you aren't, then what you said is not fact for the purposes here, and thus you will need to find another excuse to fight against the poorest students receiving school choice.
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