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Old 04-18-2009, 11:20 PM #61
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thats dumb to say his fights were fixed, you probably never watched them.....one fight he had a shredded (alot worse than broken) nose and was about to be stopped but came back to ko the other guy......why would he allow himself to get punished that badly if he fixed fights.....no one says hes the greatest ever except for casual fans, hes top 15 at least.....
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Old 04-18-2009, 11:34 PM #62
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John number 2 really. He barely did enough to be Rocky. Besides Marquez he hasn't done much. Very good fighter. He may not even be number one in his own weight division
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Old 04-19-2009, 02:49 PM #63
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Originally Posted by Mugwump View Post
It's worth remembering that Marciano was an incredibly dirty fighter. Head. Elbows. Rabbit Punching - the lot.

Fighting today he'd probably have six or more DQs against his record.
Ali, Tyson and Holyfield could all stretch the rules as can a lot of other fighters. I would guess that Marciano would adapt and do what he could get away with today.
By the same token a more modern fighter going back to his era would get more "creative"
Marciano used to absorb a lot of punishment you could say in today's era that referee's might be inclined to stop the fight rather than allow him to keep going and win. I think most referees in todays era would have pulled Mariano out in the 2nd Charles fight given the seriousness of the cut.
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Old 04-19-2009, 03:07 PM #64
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Originally Posted by dondi330 View Post
Does anyone else believe that Rocky Marciano's record was not exactly "so special"?

Considering the records of his opponents, the ages of the great fighters he fought, and something I don't really hear people discuss too much.
The influence and strength of the Italian mafia during the time of his reign.
The Mafia was at its peak *strength* while Marciano was winning.

*Strength meaning they were ruling recklessly and not so silent. Killings, racketeering, extortion to loan-sharking, prostitution, drugs and alcohol, robbery, kidnapping, and murder. Makes one wonder if they had some influence in his fights.

I mean it is fine to forgive the negative and criminal actions of a people, but let us never forget.
This is not a hate thread, just a realistic viewpoint with definite possibilities to discuss.
I've always wondered that myself. Not hating or anything, just wondered that sometimes. Considering he was Italian, and the mafia was huge in the 50's and 60's and way before that as well. It's not like they might've had a direct effect in the result of a fight (it's Rocky who's punching), but sometimes I wondered whether they'd approach some of the opponents and make a proposal they wouldn't be able to refuse. :S
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Old 04-19-2009, 03:11 PM #65
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He was a good fighter, but I think he's been slightly overrated. He isn't the greatest HW of all time, like some people have tried to tell me in the past. I don't know if I'd put him in top 5 to be honest. With that said, it's still impressive what he did.
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Old 04-19-2009, 03:36 PM #66
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Rocky's one of my favs.. In some ways it was like Tyson who emerged in the 80's & demolished a weak division.. Marciano did the same in what I'd say was a more competitive division in those days.. Marciano beat past primers, Walcott, Louis & Charles, where as Tyson deposed Berbick,Thomas,Holmes & Spinks..
Marciano beat everyone put infront of him & then retired.. Not so much because he'd run out of oponents, but more because he knew he was slipping..
He did the wise thing! Set his family up for life, and had some good years cos, 'you never know what's round the corner' tragicly occurred..
The Maf were never involved lol They had bigger fish to fry & besides, Rockies Christian beliefs twinned with iron resolve wouldn't allow this.. He was a family man.
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Old 04-19-2009, 04:17 PM #67
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Originally Posted by mickey malone View Post
Rocky's one of my favs.. In some ways it was like Tyson who emerged in the 80's & demolished a weak division.. Marciano did the same in what I'd say was a more competitive division in those days.. Marciano beat past primers, Walcott, Louis & Charles, where as Tyson deposed Berbick,Thomas,Holmes & Spinks..
Marciano beat everyone put infront of him & then retired.. Not so much because he'd run out of oponents, but more because he knew he was slipping..
He did the wise thing! Set his family up for life, and had some good years cos, 'you never know what's round the corner' tragicly occurred..
The Maf were never involved lol They had bigger fish to fry & besides, Rockies Christian beliefs twinned with iron resolve wouldn't allow this.. He was a family man.
Agreed, Marciano trained fearfully hard and his family life suffered as a result. The work needed to keep that physical peak plus I believe that his relationship with his manager had deteriated to an all time low. He'd made his money and retired to enjoy it.
As for the mafia I think the fact he was Italian might ironically make it less likely that they would get involved, maybe sit back and cheer on one of their own. Keep business out of it so to speak. Also why let him retire like he did? They could line up a no hoper get the odds and get Rocky to dive in his last fight? Makes no logical sense, if his opponents threw the fights they certainly did it in a masochistic way.
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Old 04-19-2009, 04:40 PM #68
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Agreed, Marciano trained fearfully hard and his family life suffered as a result. The work needed to keep that physical peak plus I believe that his relationship with his manager had deteriated to an all time low. He'd made his money and retired to enjoy it.
As for the mafia I think the fact he was Italian might ironically make it less likely that they would get involved, maybe sit back and cheer on one of their own. Keep business out of it so to speak. Also why let him retire like he did? They could line up a no hoper get the odds and get Rocky to dive in his last fight? Makes no logical sense, if his opponents threw the fights they certainly did it in a masochistic way.
For sure... Not only that, but he was starting to fall out of love with the game.. He'd just had a tough time with Archie Moore which displayed cracks were begining to show..
However, there were rumors that the 'threat' of Mafia involvement had an influence on his decision.. I personally don't believe this, but I'm also not 100% sure.. Regards MM
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Old 04-21-2009, 11:49 AM #69
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I am just wondering, was elbows and rabit punching illegal back when Rocky fought? Because I have seen many videos of him when he used elbows and hit the back of the head of opponents. It seriously made me loose some respect for him. I still consider him great but when I saw him fighting dirty It really turned me off. I saw a photo of him punching Joe Louis and it was clearly an elbow to the face. Also, in the Archie Moore fight, Archie probably would not have fallen if it wasn't for Rockys blow to the back of Archies head. I was disappointed to see that.

Also, a question on the side, what is an authentic Rocky Marciano autograph worth?
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