Originally posted by sonnyboyx2
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.
The level of Lewis' opponents
Collapse
-
Originally posted by sonnyboyx2 View PostRuddock - Damaged goods after Jaw & eyesocket smashed by Tyson
Tucker - Junkie
Jackson - who?
Butler - who?
Fortune - who?
Bruno - gave Lewis a lesson in jabbing
McCall (1) - sparring partner Journeyman
Morrison - HIV
Mercer - case can be made that Mercer was `robbed of decision
Akinwande - class C
McCall (2) - Junkie who was only days out of rehab
Golota - sedated with tranquilizers in dressing room after panic attack
Briggs - over-weight, yet staggered Lewis
Mavrovic - Who?..
Botha - Junkie undeserving of title shot
Tua - Fattest man to ever fight for title (weighed over 250lbs)
Holyfield - Yrs past best days yet robbed of decision in 2nd fight
Grant - ex basketballer undeserving of title fight, Class C fighter
Rahman - journeyman who poleaxed Lewis
Tyson - Decade past best days, shell of former ATG (was sedated)
Klitschko - unfortunate loser who was refused rematch
Comment
-
Originally posted by sonnyboyx2 View PostOK GJC i challenge you to have a go at doing it with Muhammad Ali or Mike Tyson (championship fights)
Liston 1 and 2: Both dubious victories and a heavy suspision that Liston threw both fights also Liston was 5 years past his peak and at possibly 40 just finally aged.
Patterson: Ten years past his best
Chuvalo: Good chin but thats about it very second rate.
Cooper: Pumped up light heavy who was second division and suffered from cuts.
London: Probably as an inept a fighter who has fought for the title.
Mildenberger: 3rd division fighter who Ali struggled with.
Williams: Totally shot years past his best.
Terrell: The black Carnera. His next 2 fights were losses against the legendary Thad Spencer and Manuel Ramos
Folley: Second division always lost when he stepped up in class
Quarry: The odd decent win but always struggling when stepping up in class
Bonavena: Who? Beat tomato cans and a shot Folley
Frazier: Got beaten up
Then revisited some old opponents in between getting whupped by Norton
Foreman: Foreman fought an incredibly stupid fight possibly drugged with Dundee having loosened the ropes etc
Wepner: Need I say much?
Lyle: Got his shot by losing to little Jimmy Young
Bugner: Agression of a goldfish typical British Heavy
Frazier: Just about hung on after getting beat up by a shot Frazier
Coopman: Belgium's best!
Young: Pumped up Middle
Dunn: Contender with London as the most inept challenger ever or you could throw in Coopman etc
Norton: Ali lost
Evangelista: earned his shot by losing to the legendary Lorenzo Zenon
Shavers: Climbed up off his backside and held on
Spinks: Probably the most ludicrous challenger since Patterson defended against Rademacher and Ali lost!
Spinks: Wow Ali beat Rademacher
Holmes: The only other time bar Frazier 1 Ali meets a prime atg he gets whupped
Berbick: Another whupping.
Satisfied?
The sad thing is some will agree with this!
Comment
-
-
Originally posted by GJC View PostOK lets do Ali:
Liston 1 and 2: Both dubious victories and a heavy suspision that Liston threw both fights also Liston was 5 years past his peak and at possibly 40 just finally aged.
Patterson: Ten years past his best
Chuvalo: Good chin but thats about it very second rate.
Cooper: Pumped up light heavy who was second division and suffered from cuts.
London: Probably as an inept a fighter who has fought for the title.
Mildenberger: 3rd division fighter who Ali struggled with.
Williams: Totally shot years past his best.
Terrell: The black Carnera. His next 2 fights were losses against the legendary Thad Spencer and Manuel Ramos
Folley: Second division always lost when he stepped up in class
Quarry: The odd decent win but always struggling when stepping up in class
Bonavena: Who? Beat tomato cans and a shot Folley
Frazier: Got beaten up
Then revisited some old opponents in between getting whupped by Norton
Foreman: Foreman fought an incredibly stupid fight possibly drugged with Dundee having loosened the ropes etc
Wepner: Need I say much?
Lyle: Got his shot by losing to little Jimmy Young
Bugner: Agression of a goldfish typical British Heavy
Frazier: Just about hung on after getting beat up by a shot Frazier
Coopman: Belgium's best!
Young: Pumped up Middle
Dunn: Contender with London as the most inept challenger ever or you could throw in Coopman etc
Norton: Ali lost
Evangelista: earned his shot by losing to the legendary Lorenzo Zenon
Shavers: Climbed up off his backside and held on
Spinks: Probably the most ludicrous challenger since Patterson defended against Rademacher and Ali lost!
Spinks: Wow Ali beat Rademacher
Holmes: The only other time bar Frazier 1 Ali meets a prime atg he gets whupped
Berbick: Another whupping.
Satisfied?
The sad thing is some will agree with this!
1/. Frazier never fought Norton as you claim.
2/. Liston was thought by many to be a champion for life
3/. Mildenberger - very good southpaw
4/. Chuvalo - as rough & tough as they come
5/. Bonavena- again rugged two-fisted brawler who had gave Frazier 2 great battles and ranked world No2
6/. Folley- in Ali`s words,"would have been champion if not for Ali"
7/. Quarry - Voted most exciting fighter in the world 67,68 & 69 ranked world No1
8/. Norton 3 times - tough fight for anyone
9/. Lyle - `Beast`who was billed as the next Sonny Liston
10/. Patterson - incredible boxer/puncher..their 1st fight was brilliant
11/. Frazier 3 times - These 3 fights are the pyramids of boxing history.
12/. Bugner - excellent record who always held his own
13/. Williams - One of greatest KO records in boxing history.
14/. Young - many on this forum rate him highly
15/. Shavers - rated by many as hardest puncher ever.
16/. Cooper - was rated as one of Britains greatest at that time, European champ entitled to world title shot
17/. Liston clearly never threw 1st fight ive never read or heard it said so... Ali was 8/1 underdog
18/. Terrell - was WBA champion
19/. Coopman, Evangelista, Dunn - European fighters Ali fought on World Tour similar to Ray Robinson vs Turpin..
20/. Foreman - Incredible physical speciman.
How many of Muhammad Ali`s fights was FOTY ?
The 1970s was known as The Golden Era by the IBHOF yet you are rubbishing its fighters and claiming the likes of Grant, Butler, Botha, Akinwande, Mavrovic, Morrison, Tucker, Bruno, Jackson, Golota, Tua, Rahman are all superior quality to Frazier, Liston, Quarry, Norton, Young, Lyle, Bugner, Patterson, Chuvalo or Bonavena
During the 50s,60s & 70s The European Champion was entitled to a shot at the World Champion.
The biggest difference between the opponents of Muhammad Ali to the opponents of Lennox Lewis is that Ali`s opponents was at the "Top of their Game" wheras Lewis opponents was "All on the slide".... Ali fought the No1 contenders but Lewis refused to fight them so was stripped of every belt.
There is no Foreman, Sanders, Bowe, Hide, Moorer, Witherspoon, Ruiz, Byrd, Wlad, Jones jr, Holmes on the record of Lewis yet they all held World Titles during 92 to 2003 when Lewis was a Belt holder... To claim they avoided Lewis is ridiculous, the likely scenario is that they was "All at the top of their game" So Lewis avoided Them, something which can never be said of Muhammad Ali.Last edited by sonnyboyx2; 11-05-2009, 03:19 PM.
Comment
-
Originally posted by sonnyboyx2 View PostNice try GJC yet IMO all of Alis challengers easily beat all of Lennox Lewis challengers..
Originally posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post
1/. Frazier never fought Norton as you claim.
Originally posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post2/. Liston was thought by many to be a champion for life
Originally posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post5/. Bonavena- again rugged two-fisted brawler who had gave Frazier 2 great battles and ranked world No2
7/. Quarry - Voted most exciting fighter in the world 67,68 & 69 ranked world No1
Originally posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post10/. Patterson - incredible boxer/puncher..their 1st fight was brilliant
Originally posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post16/. Cooper - was rated as one of Britains greatest at that time, European champ entitled to world title shot
Originally posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post11/. Frazier 3 times - These 3 fights are the pyramids of boxing history.
Originally posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post13/. Williams - One of greatest KO records in boxing history.
Originally posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post17/. Liston clearly never threw 1st fight ive never read or heard it said so... Ali was 8/1 underdog
or peoples opinions that both Liston fights were dodgy.
Originally posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post15/. Shavers - rated by many as hardest puncher ever.
Originally posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post18/. Terrell - was WBA champion
Originally posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post3/. Mildenberger - very good southpaw
Originally posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post4/. Chuvalo - as rough & tough as they come
Originally posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post6/. Folley- in Ali`s words,"would have been champion if not for Ali"
Originally posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post12/. Bugner - excellent record who always held his own
Originally posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post8/. Norton 3 times - tough fight for anyone
Originally posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post14/. Young - many on this forum rate him highly
Originally posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post20/. Foreman - Incredible physical speciman.
Originally posted by sonnyboyx2 View PostHow many of Muhammad Ali`s fights was FOTY ?
Originally posted by sonnyboyx2 View PostDuring the 50s,60s & 70s The European Champion was entitled to a shot at the World Champion.
Comment
-
Originally posted by GJC View PostOnly based on him "beating" Ali and a mind****ed Foreman ever see him as a MW?
Did forget Lyle too so lets do him, earned shot by losing to Jimmy Young and apart from swapping knock outs with Foreman and losing and with Shavers and winning who did he ever beat?
Comment
-
Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying Lewis ducked anyone, I'm not saying Lewis is not a great champion. For Lewis' 2nd run as champion, he was the best heavyweight around. No doubt. I can assume Bowe ducked him, but that doesn't change the fact that he didn't fight Bowe. I can't reward Lewis for fighting everyone when he didn't fight everyone, even if they ducked him. I can't say that Michael Grant for example was a big win for Lewis because at the time Grant was so highly regarded, when I know for a fact now that Grant was a product of hype and barely a boxer. It can't be ignored. It doesn't mean Lewis sucked, but it should knock him down a peg. I don't think that's unfair, and I think it is unfair to rate Lewis with Holmes, Frazier, Foreman, etc., when the quality of opponent is just not the same. What was it that RA dude said in that Floyd Mayweather "interview"? "I could fight 15 girls and go undefeated." Maybe he was just unlucky. Getting KO'd by an above average journeyman in McCall and a solid contender in Rahman hurts him too. I would do the same if Holmes had been KO'd by Renaldo Snipes or Mike Weaver.
Comment
-
[QUOTE=blacklodge;6548186]Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying Lewis ducked anyone, I'm not saying Lewis is not a great champion. For Lewis' 2nd run as champion, he was the best heavyweight around. No doubt. I can assume Bowe ducked him, but that doesn't change the fact that he didn't fight Bowe. I can't reward Lewis for fighting everyone when he didn't fight everyone, even if they ducked him. I can't say that Michael Grant for example was a big win for Lewis because at the time Grant was so highly regarded, when I know for a fact now that Grant was a product of hype and barely a boxer. It can't be ignored. It doesn't mean Lewis sucked, but it should knock him down a peg. I don't think that's unfair, and I think it is unfair to rate Lewis with Holmes, Frazier, Foreman, etc., when the quality of opponent is just not the same. What was it that RA dude said in that Floyd Mayweather "interview"? "I could fight 15 girls and go undefeated." Maybe he was just unlucky. Getting KO'd by an above average journeyman in McCall and a solid contender in Rahman hurts him too. I would do the same if Holmes had been KO'd by Renaldo Snipes or Mike Weaver.[/QUO
well said post
Comment
Comment