Do you agree with Koncz: Pac would be great without Roach. Freddie? Not so much.

[Al Haymon]

I'm paraphrasing here:

Koncz on 24/7:

"I ask myself if Manny Pacquiao would be a great fighter with Roach. Yes, I believe he would be.

I then ask myself if Roach would have the reputation that he does, if he would be as highly regarded without Manny. I don't think so"


Personally, I agree with Koncz on this. Manny is a singular talent, and any of the top trainers would have brought him to the top of the sport: Steward, Goossen, Nacho, Nazim,, Mayweather, etc.
Roach, however, hasn't shown "greatness" with any other fighter.

What do you guys think?

[jrosales13]

I think Roach has done a good job with Khan. IMO did a great job with Izzy Vazquez, I feel Roach helped ressurect James Toney career, Vanes looks better with Roach. Roach actualy has a pretty good track recore. So I doubt it.

But, all the trainers you mentioned are great except for Mayweather. So is not absurd to think that they wouldn't help Pac become great. But, I think you have to take the chemistry into effect. How they get along. Ronnie Shields is doing a better job with Cintron than what Steward did. IMO Ronnie has better chemistry with Cintron. Nacho has had great chemistry with JMM, Rafa, Zaragosa, and Finito.

Chemistry to me is the one thing you cant take for granted. And, that is why Roach is the perfect man for Pac. So I will say that Koncz is wrong. Pac might have developed. But, he probably would not be the same fighter if that makes sense...

[-MAKAVELLI-]

i really think PAC would be a top 5 ATG with Jack Loew

[2120]

were is the option that gives roach all the credit in making pac a great fighter and without roach he would not be were he is?

[-Antonio-]

Well Roach was in Toney's corner for a while though at that point James was already developed.

I think the fighter makes the trainer more than the other way around in the long run. How many aggressive southpaws with speed like that and power come along anyway? Hardly ever. In fact Pac is one of a kind in a sense.

[larry x]

no..i think roach is the perfect match for manny..without all the attention and match making roach gives manny..he wouldve been good but not great manny matches him perfectly

[Al Haymon]

were is the option that gives roach all the credit in making pac a great fighter and without roach he would not be were he is?

That would have been an unbiased, pro-Roach option.

I'm incapable of that.

[Eaner0919]

I think Roach has done a good job with Khan.

there isnt any real proof of that yet. To me the jury is still out on whether Roach has done anything to refine Khan.

IMO did a great job with Izzy Vazquez,

Actually think Perez has done a better job in the 3 fights he has had with Vazquez than Roach and let's not forget Roach was clamoring for Izzy to retire before he had his fights with Marquez.

I feel Roach helped ressurect James Toney career,

again I respectfully disagree. Toney is Toney and does whatever he wants. At the stage of his career he was at Toney wasn't going to take that much more instruction from any trainer. In fact, it was with Roach that Toney was his heaviest and was caught using steroids.

Vanes looks better with Roach. Roach actualy has a pretty good track recore. So I doubt it.

jury is out but I also think it has a lot more to do with Vanes being back home and comfy as well


Roach is good but I tend to think that what Manny has done drives people mentioning him as an all timer.

[PensionKiller]

I think that Freddie gives Pac the attention he needs. He helps with the mind games and has taught Pac and improved him.

If there were others as talented as Pac, then he could do the same. Without him, he still has a good training record.

Every fighter makes his trainer, but the trainer always makes a fighter.

Floyd would not be the same without Uncle Roger, and Roger would not be the same without him.

E Steward without Lennox is not the same, even though he has a good Heavyweight champ in Lennox.

I guess a trainer has a training resume so to speak, and he relies on his fighters winning too.

[Al Haymon]

Well Roach was in Toney's corner for a while though at that point James was already developed.

I think the fighter makes the trainer more than the other way around in the long run. How many aggressive southpaws with speed like that and power come along anyway? Hardly ever. In fact Pac is one of a kind in a sense.

In fact, if you have a powerful left hand, it is almost impossible to mess you up. You WILL find some level of success in the sport.

Joe Frazier
Oscar Delahoya
Miguel Cotto
Zab Judah
Antonio Tarver
etc

Now, some of those guys are clearly not as great as Pac... but if you look at the top guys throughout multiple eras, you will consistently find a good left hand.