Why wasn't Andy Lee elite in the past MW era but is now?

[yankees7448]

Not to take this down a geeky road (though I can't help it as I was 1st in my class in Eng 101 and 102) but I cannot 'qualify' someone else's definition and/or context. You're asking me to explain their use of the phrase. That's not possible.

You're right. I should have simply said I don't agree with how you are interpreting their statement.

That aside, no...lol. Andy is not powerful, aggressive, or even particularly talented, though he is a middleweight so you got 1 out of 4 right. He's fought 3 opponents worth mentioning, 2 who he lost to, one who he had a draw with. That's zero notable wins on Lee's record. He doesn't belong in the ring with Golovkin.

Based upon what he has done recently I would agree with you. He's been very inactive and his only recent win was against a no-hoper who was brought in to knock off the ring rust. And he hasn't fought again since that fight. He is certainly way behind the list of guys worthy of a shot against GGG. In the middleweight division I would say Charlo, Jacobs, Canelo, Billy Joe Saunders, the winner of Ndam/Murata 2, Andrade and Sergey Derevyanchenko are all more worthy at this point. Outside of 160 I would still think guys like James DeGeale, Gilbert Ramerez, David Benevidez, Erislandy Lara, the other Charlo and the winner of Trout/Hurd would all deserve a shot before Lee. Lee needs to stop being a diva and beat some worthwhile middleweights before he gets a shot at GGG. I would love to see him fight David Lemieux. That would be another exciting matchup.



As for the fight between Lee and Saunders, one fight does not determine a fighter. Andy Lee is certainly a talented,powerful and aggressive fighter. Anyone who doesn't see that is not actually watching his fights. For fuucks sake the guy trained under Emmanuel Stewart at Kronk. They don't train slappers at that gym and he's got some of scary friggin one punch KO victories under his belt.

[Redd Foxx]

You're right. I should have simply said I don't agree with how you are interpreting their statement.


Based upon what he has done recently I would agree with you. He's been very inactive and his only recent win was against a no-hoper who was brought in to knock off the ring rust. And he hasn't fought again since that fight. He is certainly way behind the list of guys worthy of a shot against GGG. In the middleweight division I would say Charlo, Jacobs, Canelo, Billy Joe Saunders, the winner of Ndam/Murata 2, Andrade and Sergey Derevyanchenko are all more worthy at this point. Outside of 160 I would still think guys like James DeGeale, Gilbert Ramerez, David Benevidez, Erislandy Lara, the other Charlo and the winner of Trout/Hurd would all deserve a shot before Lee. Lee needs to stop being a diva and beat some worthwhile middleweights before he gets a shot at GGG. I would love to see him fight David Lemieux. That would be another exciting matchup.



As for the fight between Lee and Saunders, one fight does not determine a fighter. Andy Lee is certainly a talented,powerful and aggressive fighter. Anyone who doesn't see that is not actually watching his fights. For fuucks sake the guy trained under Emmanuel Stewart at Kronk. They don't train slappers at that gym and he's got some of scary friggin one punch KO victories under his belt.

Wasn't going to post because I think this thread has run it's course but I at least wanted to give acknowledgement to your reply. I don't agree with all of it but it was well thought out and respectful (nice to see a disagreement end intelligently, that's a rare thing here).

I'm still pissed at Andy for having the ability to beat Chavez Jr but throwing it away because he didn't listen to Manny and fell right into the trap.

[FlatLine]

I know what you mean, he's basically a "top tier" fighter of this era but he wasn't considered so a few years ago. It's possibly both the division being less talent-enriched and Lee improving as a fighter. The combined effect render him as a top tier fighter of the current day. If you take the Lee from today back to the last era he might have some competitive fights with at least some of the last era's top tier.

[Cutthroat]

I feel like people really underrate Lee's draw with Quillin and his win vs Korobov. Jacob's best win is Quillin and he'd arguably lose to Korobov.

I mean Korobov beat Jacob's ass in the Olympics, he was one of the hottest prospects and on a collision course with ggg being showcased by HBO.



He thoroughly out boxed and dropped him in the amateurs with ease, a pro bout would've easily been 50/50 and Jacobs could've arguably lost again.


Korobov would be the best fighter on Jacob's resume by far, not the Quillin that was ruined by Lee. People talk about Jacobs like he's elite, like he doesn't already have 2 losses, like his best win isn't Lee's leftovers, 2nd to that a career jmw in Mora.

[T-1000]

Andy Lee elite? Put down the pipe you dummy...

[LetOutTheCage]

Elite fighters don't lose rounds yet ggg went life and death with Ouma, Jacobs, admitted he lost ALL the rounds vs Brook, and drew with career JMW Canelo. Even vs Stevens, Murray, Monroe we saw these guys putting leather on ggg's face, the excuse being "he lets his opponents hit him"

There is no Ward, Mayweather of 160. The newest additions Canelo, Andrade, Charlo are barely getting acclimated.



Quillin didn't fight ggg. You're going to pretend Lee didn't damage Quillin? Lee won the 2nd half of the fight, putting Quillin down hard, rocking him and out boxing him.

Monroe wasn't competitive against ggg? He wasn't putting leather on his face? Stevens wasn't landing either? What about Ouma? Lost every round against Brook, lost plenty vs Jacobs, lost plenty vs Canelo.

ggg gets touched up by practically everyone fights, he's not Ward. What fantasy world do you live in?




What achievement is that based on? Tell me, because Lee already damaged Quillin and that's Jacob's career defining win.

Based on watching them fight rather than just looking at resume. But if you want to look specifically at their resume ok...Lee got a draw against Quilin, Jacobs KO'd Qulilin in one round

[Cutthroat]

Based on watching them fight rather than just looking at resume. But if you want to look specifically at their resume ok...Lee got a draw against Quilin, Jacobs KO'd Qulilin in one round

Why do you ignore the fact that Lee damaged Quillin the fight before? Lee had already dropped him HARD for the 1st time ever, rocked him, out boxed him. By the 2nd half of the fight he had Quillin scared to throw. The fact that DJ KO'd him so fast should tell you he was damaged goods.

Like I said, Korobov would be the #1 fighter on Jacob's resume and based off the amateurs where Korobov absolutely kicked Jacob's ass I'd say Korobov would be the favorite heading into the fight.

[LetOutTheCage]

Why do you ignore the fact that Lee damaged Quillin the fight before? Lee had already dropped him HARD for the 1st time ever, rocked him, out boxed him. By the 2nd half of the fight he had Quillin scared to throw. The fact that DJ KO'd him so fast should tell you he was damaged goods.

Like I said, Korobov would be the #1 fighter on Jacob's resume and based off the amateurs where Korobov absolutely kicked Jacob's ass I'd say Korobov would be the favorite heading into the fight.

Oh i'm sorry I thought we were still just looking at resume's like you were saying we should, you keep trying to change the goalposts...

If he was damaged goods how then did he get a draw if he was damaged goods? You're whole premise to this thread has been an epic failure so now your trying to find small victories wherever you can find them.

[Thraxox]

Oh i'm sorry I thought we were still just looking at resume's like you were saying we should, you keep trying to change the goalposts...

If he was damaged goods how then did he get a draw if he was damaged goods? You're whole premise to this thread has been an epic failure so now your trying to find small victories wherever you can find them.

The fact that he compared Amateur background and result of DJ vs Korobov in the Amateur to argue that Korobov might actually beat Jacobs in the professional bout shows how dishonest and a failure this thread is.

His premise is based on resume without having to watch them fight.

[Cutthroat]

Oh i'm sorry I thought we were still just looking at resume's like you were saying we should, you keep trying to change the goalposts...

If he was damaged goods how then did he get a draw if he was damaged goods? You're whole premise to this thread has been an epic failure so now your trying to find small victories wherever you can find them.

We are looking at resumes and Quillin was Lee's leftovers.
Korobov would arguably be the favorite vs Quillin based off the amateur performance, and Lee beat him.

Quillin was awarded a bogus knock down in round 3 that prevented Lee from winning. After blitzing him in the 1st 3 rounds the rest of the fight was Lee. Lee rocked Quillin 2x that fight, dropped him, and was tagging him clean throughout the fight. Quillin was scared to death to throw in the 2nd half because he was getting hurt too much.

Jacobs doesn't hit THAT hard and lesser fighters than Quillin have lasted longer against him. The fact that it ended so quickly in round 1 should tell you something was up with Quillin, and it was the beating he took the previous fight.