A return to the original weight class system

[Contra]

It hasn't been a problem, so why is it a problem now? Because of Caneloweight? Like it or not boxing is a circus.

So we shouldn't try to stop our favorite sport from being a circus? Love that mentality. And I do believe that weight issues have been a big problem in boxing, especially in recent years. And yes, the situation with Canelo is a big part of the problem. He has been handed a a decent resume because he's an attractive Mexican that brings a huge fan base. Fan base = money = power. Now he is using that power to maintain his good resume and avoid fighting at a real weight class. But goddammit, why does this sport still need to be held hostage by greed?

There are a million problems in boxing cuz everyone can make their own rules to one degree or another. Weight is just one of them. If you want hard rules on weight, why not hard rules for everything? One hard rule on weigh in times. On rehydration. On the gloves to be used. On the ring size. You need to streamline everything. You need a NFL of boxing which isn't close to being a reality.

Just because we can't fix every problem doesn't mean we shouldn't ever address any of them. As a fan, I'd like to improve the sport, and not just remain satisfied with the status quo. I also believe that ring size should be standardized. One size fits all. Re-hydration is a tougher issue, but that would be solved with same-day weigh-ins, which I also wholeheartedly support.

Its silly so many people are freaked out that two guys wanna fight each other at 143lbs, but somehow fighting in a giant or tiny ring or with punchers gloves or a giant catchers mitt is cool.

Because in bigger fights it's usually not two guys agreeing to meet in the middle, it's the A-side using that leverage to gain any sort advantage on an opponent, whether or not the B-side appears to agree to the terms. Pac did it to Cotto, Floyd did it to Canelo, and Canelo's doing it to everybody.

No its not. Its mostly random fights on club shows or wherever between two guys who don't wanna lose those last 3 lbs to get down or can't make or don't wanna make the weight they wanna ultimately compete in for some bs club fight thats paying them $500-$2,000 or whatever. They are bs random fights between guys you don't know & likely will never hear of. Go on boxrec & look at a few random full cards. You find these fights there all the time & you'll find them thru every era that they have weight statistics on.

Again, you are merely stating the reality of the current situation, but not justifying the validity of the situation. Would it be that terrible to force all boxers to fight in one weight class or the other? God forbid they actually have to maintain their weight in order to be professional fighters...

All you are doing is likely risking injuries or mismatches. In particular in the bigger divisions by making this a thing. For an easy example you'd be forcing a 185ish guy to try to lose more weight than its probably healthy to do or you are forcing him to fight 200lb guys who got a 15lb weight advantage over him. All cuz boxing fans are making silly arguments about catchweights. LOL.

MMA fighters seem to be doing fine. Either permanently cut weight, or eat some steak and potatoes and put on some muscle. Fighters in the UFC have moved up and down and have been successful in different weight classes, and these are legit jumps, not 5-6 pounds. And the arguments aren't silly. I would venture to guess that many big fights in recent years haven't been won or lost in the ring, but in the gym when the fighter was trying to make weight, or in the sauna two hours before the weigh-in. When you shed every ounce of fat on your body, two more pounds can make a big difference.

Come on man. You must be new cuz you should know by now boxing fans will make silly arguments about anything anyway. Catchweights, type gloves, ring size, bouncy castle rings if Wladimir would have been able to get Fury to fight in his, prime (prime arguments are great for trolls cuz they are open as wide or as small as you can argue well that they are, like to hear some people talk about it Floyd's prime was his whole career cuz he didn't lose, like your body stays the same as long as you are racking up W's) & all sorts of other ****.

I will concede to this point. I'm sure fans will just find other things to argue about, but again, just because we can't fix every problem doesn't mean we shouldn't try to remedy specific issues. Weight seems like a common source of problems during negotiations, so it stands to reason that eliminating that problem would make fights easier to negotiate, right?
Less bullshít, more big fights.

[Fury4daWIN]

So long as they don't get rid of Cruiserweight I'm cool.

[Eff Pandas]

I do believe that weight issues have been a big problem in boxing, especially in recent years. And yes, the situation with Canelo is a big part of the problem.

Again I assume you are new. Its not a "recent years" problem. Ray Leonard won a 175lb title with a 168lb catchweight. He defended that 168lb title he won on the same night at a catchweight of 164lbs twice. That was 27ish years ago. This ain't nothing new at all. I bet I could go back further if I was better at boxing history.

Just because we can't fix every problem doesn't mean we shouldn't ever address any of them. As a fan, I'd like to improve the sport, and not just remain satisfied with the status quo. I also believe that ring size should be standardized. One size fits all. Re-hydration is a tougher issue, but that would be solved with same-day weigh-ins, which I also wholeheartedly support.

Who the **** is "we". Thats the biggest problem with any of the stuff you are talking about. There is no we in boxing.

I definitely agree there should be one glove & one ring used universally. I think weight cutting & rehydration shouldn't even be a discussion cuz they shouldn't be happening. Fighters should have a "healthy walking around weight range" given to them upon being giving a boxing license & as long as they weigh that before the fight & is opponent is within a fair range of that amount the fight is on. That would cut most of the bs with weight right there.

Because in bigger fights it's usually not two guys agreeing to meet in the middle, it's the A-side using that leverage to gain any sort advantage on an opponent, whether or not the B-side appears to agree to the terms. Pac did it to Cotto, Floyd did it to Canelo, and Canelo's doing it to everybody.

Yea I'd agree the catchweight stuff most people hear is this stuff & not the 99% of catchweight fights happening at the club level & up. That is largely about the alphabet groups being more worried about money then anything else. All the alphabet groups could tomorrow say that you can't catchweight title fights. They got the leverage. This ain't something you & I needs to hands across the world with other boxing fans to accomplish. The powers that be don't have a problem with that so it is what it is. Go write them a mean letter. I'll sign it even though my overall opinion is that if fighters agree to a weight in a non-title or title fight it should be fine, but I do still see the argument that title fights for 160lb titles should have a weight limit of 160.

Again, you are merely stating the reality of the current situation, but not justifying the validity of the situation. Would it be that terrible to force all boxers to fight in one weight class or the other? God forbid they actually have to maintain their weight in order to be professional fighters...

Again you're thinking Canelo & Floyd & Manny & Sugar Ray. 99% of these catchweight fights are among guys probably making bs money to get hit in the head for our entertainment. The reality is fights at the club level are barely professional fights due to the matchmaking. Its one half-way decent guy to legit prospect vs a guy who's gonna fall down or lose. These aren't realllllyyyy professional fighters.

MMA fighters seem to be doing fine.

Fighters in the UFC have moved up and down and have been successful in different weight classes

No f#cking clue what you mean here. Boxers move up & down are successful too. And catchweights happen in MMA. And not just that couple lbs over stuff the UFC does. The stuff you see on TV or PPV isn't the whole universe of boxing & MMA. There are shows that might be happening in your city or state with guys few outside of your city or state will ever talk about.

I will concede to this point. I'm sure fans will just find other things to argue about, but again, just because we can't fix every problem doesn't mean we shouldn't try to remedy specific issues. Weight seems like a common source of problems during negotiations, so it stands to reason that eliminating that problem would make fights easier to negotiate, right?
Less bullshít, more big fights.

Again you are WAYYYY to Canelo, Floyd, Manny & Sugar Ray focused. There are 20,000 active boxers at any given time. Your problem is apparently with the 1 guy who's active now & abusing this catchweight thing via his drawing power. Makes zero sense to alter something cuz of one f#cking guy when 19,999 aren't doing anything wrong.

Giving everyone the same glove & same ring size makes much more sense than something like weight that is a more problematic issue involving living human beings trying to control what they eat or don't eat & late notice fights & opponent changes & all the realities of club show boxing. Any yet no one brings up the same glove & ring size like they bring up catchweight. I assure you there are many more guys getting gloves they want or insuring their opponent gets a non-favorable glove + guys who are main event level on the local level to higher surely are getting the smaller ring if they are punchers or bigger rings if they are boxers to better insure they win than there are guys getting favorable catchweights. But you rarely here about that stuff cuz no one really tracks or listens to that stuff.

Just go back to Sugar Ray again. If you look into his fight demands he was always requiring certain gloves & certain ring sizes in most of his biggest fights even when he didn't have a catchweight. Oscar did that to Floyd, but no one talks about that hardly ever. Weight stuff is a sexier topic I guess.

[New England]

i'm fine with the weights bein gthe way they are. the new weight classes will be an impediment to fights getting made. for instance, the jump between 130-135-140-147 seem trivial to the layman, but are significant when you're talking about a similar class of fighter. a great 140 lber beats a great 135 lber, and likely destroys a great 130 lber.


what they need to do away with, for the sake of the purity of competition, are the f3cking alphabets. those are some of hte most corrupt and backward sporting orgs on the planet. that they're allowed to exist and operate international f#cking blows my mind. i'm in the wrong business. i have to play by real rules .

[Box-Office]

Some of those weight classes I don't mind, 168 lbs has been a treat for a ages. The more knowledgeable/older guys can tell me if it was always the case.

[Box-Office]

i'm fine with the weights bein gthe way they are. the new weight classes will be an impediment to fights getting made. for instance, the jump between 130-135-140-147 seem trivial to the layman, but are significant when you're talking about a similar class of fighter. a great 140 lber beats a great 135 lber, and likely destroys a great 130 lber.


what they need to do away with, for the sake of the purity of competition, are the f3cking alphabets. those are some of hte most corrupt and backward sporting orgs on the planet. that they're allowed to exist and operate international f#cking blows my mind. i'm in the wrong business. i have to play by real rules .

I'm actually okay with more than one tbh, but I guess it has to do with my love of professional wrestling so we can crown an "undisputed" World champion

WBA/WBC was good enough, IBF a little too much as it allows for the existence of a weak champion and the WBO simply made it redundant

[Contra]

Again I assume you are new. Its not a "recent years" problem. Ray Leonard won a 175lb title with a 168lb catchweight. He defended that 168lb title he won on the same night at a catchweight of 164lbs twice. That was 27ish years ago. This ain't nothing new at all. I bet I could go back further if I was better at boxing history.



Who the **** is "we". Thats the biggest problem with any of the stuff you are talking about. There is no we in boxing.

I definitely agree there should be one glove & one ring used universally. I think weight cutting & rehydration shouldn't even be a discussion cuz they shouldn't be happening. Fighters should have a "healthy walking around weight range" given to them upon being giving a boxing license & as long as they weigh that before the fight & is opponent is within a fair range of that amount the fight is on. That would cut most of the bs with weight right there.



Yea I'd agree the catchweight stuff most people hear is this stuff & not the 99% of catchweight fights happening at the club level & up. That is largely about the alphabet groups being more worried about money then anything else. All the alphabet groups could tomorrow say that you can't catchweight title fights. They got the leverage. This ain't something you & I needs to hands across the world with other boxing fans to accomplish. The powers that be don't have a problem with that so it is what it is. Go write them a mean letter. I'll sign it even though my overall opinion is that if fighters agree to a weight in a non-title or title fight it should be fine, but I do still see the argument that title fights for 160lb titles should have a weight limit of 160.



Again you're thinking Canelo & Floyd & Manny & Sugar Ray. 99% of these catchweight fights are among guys probably making bs money to get hit in the head for our entertainment. The reality is fights at the club level are barely professional fights due to the matchmaking. Its one half-way decent guy to legit prospect vs a guy who's gonna fall down or lose. These aren't realllllyyyy professional fighters.



No f#cking clue what you mean here. Boxers move up & down are successful too. And catchweights happen in MMA. And not just that couple lbs over stuff the UFC does. The stuff you see on TV or PPV isn't the whole universe of boxing & MMA. There are shows that might be happening in your city or state with guys few outside of your city or state will ever talk about.



Again you are WAYYYY to Canelo, Floyd, Manny & Sugar Ray focused. There are 20,000 active boxers at any given time. Your problem is apparently with the 1 guy who's active now & abusing this catchweight thing via his drawing power. Makes zero sense to alter something cuz of one f#cking guy when 19,999 aren't doing anything wrong.

Giving everyone the same glove & same ring size makes much more sense than something like weight that is a more problematic issue involving living human beings trying to control what they eat or don't eat & late notice fights & opponent changes & all the realities of club show boxing. Any yet no one brings up the same glove & ring size like they bring up catchweight. I assure you there are many more guys getting gloves they want or insuring their opponent gets a non-favorable glove + guys who are main event level on the local level to higher surely are getting the smaller ring if they are punchers or bigger rings if they are boxers to better insure they win than there are guys getting favorable catchweights. But you rarely here about that stuff cuz no one really tracks or listens to that stuff.

Just go back to Sugar Ray again. If you look into his fight demands he was always requiring certain gloves & certain ring sizes in most of his biggest fights even when he didn't have a catchweight. Oscar did that to Floyd, but no one talks about that hardly ever. Weight stuff is a sexier topic I guess.

Yeah, by "we" I mean all boxing fans. I know that I'm being an idealist, but is it that far-fetched to believe that all boxing fans could agree on something? Especially something as shítty as A-sides forcing catchweights.

The UFC comparison was used to illustrate that wider gaps in weight classes aren't necessarily detrimental. And no, catchweights are not nearly as common in MMA, and this crap with Canelo would never, ever fly. But I suppose that has something to do with how MMA organizations operate. In addition, boxers rarely move up and then come back down. When was the last time a boxer won a title, then jumped up 15-20 lbs, and then came back to their original weight class and continued to win fights?

I supposed we'll have to agree to disagree on the issue of catchweights, although you still haven't offered a good reason as to why they should exist. You've just stated that they're common and have existed for years... and? That's nothing but a naturalistic fallacy and an argument from tradition. Neither of which actually supports the continued need for catchweights at any level. And yes, CWs used by more popular fighters are obviously less common, but they are also more likely to be watched by casual fans, so they appear to be more common at the higher level than they really are. IMO, this sets a bad precedent.

If you ask me, it's just another tactic to gain an advantage, just like gloves, ring size, etc., at least in high level fights.

And it's like I said, if fans don't want CWs at higher level fights, then we can't have them at lower level fights, either.

But whatevs. We can agree to disagree.

[Eastcoast]

Fewer weight classes and stricter & more frequent weigh-ins.

[Eff Pandas]

Yeah, by "we" I mean all boxing fans. I know that I'm being an idealist, but is it that far-fetched to believe that all boxing fans could agree on something? Especially something as shítty as A-sides forcing catchweights.

Brother its far fetched to believe you can get any large enough group to 100% agree on anything.

The UFC comparison was used to illustrate that wider gaps in weight classes aren't necessarily detrimental. And no, catchweights are not nearly as common in MMA

I'm actually in agreement on fewer weight classes or just going back to the original divisions or even straight jacking MMA's weight divisions, which I believe to be a better structure. I just don't have a problem with two boxers agreeing on fighting at a particular weight without regard to those fewer weight classes. Weight classes are for titles & all that political stuff not boxing as a whole. You just want guys to be of similar weights.

I never said catchweights are as common in MMA. Merely that they happen in MMA to, beyond that UFC couple lbs over thing.

I supposed we'll have to agree to disagree on the issue of catchweights, although you still haven't offered a good reason as to why they should exist.

You obviously are just typing & not reading what I'm saying. Like I keep saying most catchweights happen between guys you don't know & won't know. Canelo & A sides are doing 0.003% of the catchweight fights in boxing. Catchweight fights mostly happen at the club show level & other off TV events where fights get made with only days to prepare for a particular opponent & maybe he's heavy or maybe you haven't had time to train so your heavy cuz you got a full time job right now & all sorts of things like that that tends to come about with hours or days til fight time. I don't think you grasp how far boxing branches out.

If you ask me, it's just another tactic to gain an advantage, just like gloves, ring size, etc., at least in high level fights.

I never said it wasn't. Just that it doesn't happen that much that it should be considered a problem. Go list all the high profile guys commanding catchweights in the last 5 years that you got a problem with doing this. I'd bet you'd have problems coming up with 10 guys, hell maybe 5 guys. This is a made up problem on the mass scale. Banning catchweights would be like banning the purchase of guns for everyone cuz one guy went on a shooting spree.

[Eff Pandas]

stricter & more frequent weigh-ins.

Don't you think it'd just be easier to assign a guy a weight class based on various determining factors (BMI, gravity testing, your body type, etc) upon getting your initial boxing license to come up with a healthy weight range? Then we get rid of weight cutting entirely with everyone fighting at their walking around weight. Then we'd just need to weigh guys before fights & make sure they were within their healthy weight range & from there just make sure the other guy is within a reasonable weight distance from the opponent.

One of my biggest boxer related problems in boxing is the weight cutting sport within a sport that making weight opens things up for.