Trace That Technique

[The Old LefHook]

This is almost impossible--to attribute the use of any particular boxing techniqe from parrying to striking to footwork to any particular boxer or trainer.

For instance, I seriously doubt Kid Gavilan was the originator of the bolo punch, but I could be wrong about that. The first we know about may not be the first.

Behind high school algebra is a lot of heavy intellectual work. Someone first had to figure out how to solve a quadratic equation. Someone was actually first--or the first we know about. Then it got formalized into a set of moves known as an algorithm. The same with every theorem in the algebra book.

Two boxers who I feel are good candidates for probably having invented some of the moves we take for granted would be Joe Gans and Jim Corbett. Of course they were handed something too. But they seem to have extended the parameters of the manly art quite a bit, so probably did some inventing.

We are never going to know the true origins of most boxing techniques, the headwaters where they were used for the first time, but perhaps someone has specific knowledge of certain boxing techniques. I believe fencing had some import on boxing, but then again I doubt that Joe Gans spent any time at fencing matches. Techniques or truths can be arrived at independently sometimes, just as they are in science, through very different avenues.

Okay, so who invented what? Or did anybody?

[NChristo]

This is almost impossible--to attribute the use of any particular boxing techniqe from parrying to striking to footwork to any particular boxer or trainer.

For instance, I seriously doubt Kid Gavilan was the originator of the bolo punch, but I could be wrong about that. The first we know about may not be the first.

Behind high school algebra is a lot of heavy intellectual work. Someone first had to figure out how to solve a quadratic equation. Someone was actually first--or the first we know about. Then it got formalized into a set of moves known as an algorithm. The same with every theorem in the algebra book.

Two boxers who I feel are good candidates for probably having invented some of the moves we take for granted would be Joe Gans and Jim Corbett. Of course they were handed something too. But they seem to have extended the parameters of the manly art quite a bit, so probably did some inventing.

We are never going to know the true origins of most boxing techniques, the headwaters where they were used for the first time, but perhaps someone has specific knowledge of certain boxing techniques. I believe fencing had some import on boxing, but then again I doubt that Joe Gans spent any time at fencing matches. Techniques or truths can be arrived at independently sometimes, just as they are in science, through very different avenues.

Okay, so who invented what? Or did anybody?

Ceferino Garcia is credited as 'inventing' the bolo punch but chances are it still goes back further, he's probably the first person on film that we can see clearly doing it though.

In Jack Dempsey's book 'Championship Fighting' (I think it's that one) he referred to Joe Ganns as being the man who came up with the falling jab (might have the name wrong) where you step forward while jabbing with all your weight on the front foot, heavy jab you can use to get on the inside or keep someone wary, used very little today although Cotto is a good example of someone who uses it quite frequently. Quite hard to spot and is surprisingly difficult to use correctly.

[RED REP]

Man I hope this thread takes off!

[Anthony342]

Falling jab. Wlad seems to keep that going today, as he seems to almost fall down after throwing every jab.

It's the same thing with the arts and with entertainment and other sports. Most of the time we might not know exactly who invented something but most of the time we can tell who made something famous, like dancing around seemed to be made famous by Ali, the shoulder roll with Mayweather, one can usually find earlier examples if enough research is done. I've also heard quarterbacks mostly stayed in the pocket until Fran Tarkenton made scrambling famous, Pete Rose I've heard was known for making head first slides more popular, guys like Russell and Chamberlain making dunking in basketball more known and then it really taking off with Dr. J and the ABA teams in the '70s, as well as the 3 point shot and Helio, Rickson and Royce Gracie making Gracie, later Brazilian Jiu Jitsu more widely known worldwide as a martial art and more people wanting to train in it after their long impressive records in no holds barred martial arts competition. While Bruce Lee was an early proponent of mixing different styles, we didn't get to really see it in action until MMA became a bigger sport.

Now most people that get into it at least try to train some freestyle wrestling, BJJ and either muay thai or boxing, depending on what a particular fighter is more comfortable with for striking. Boxing seems to be more widely used in the sport, as kicks are harder to master and a fighter can more easily keep their balance when mostly throwing just punches on the feet.

[The Old LefHook]

Ceferino Garcia is credited as 'inventing' the bolo punch but chances are it still goes back further, he's probably the first person on film that we can see clearly doing it though.

In Jack Dempsey's book 'Championship Fighting' (I think it's that one) he referred to Joe Ganns as being the man who came up with the falling jab (might have the name wrong) where you step forward while jabbing with all your weight on the front foot, heavy jab you can use to get on the inside or keep someone wary, used very little today although Cotto is a good example of someone who uses it quite frequently. Quite hard to spot and is surprisingly difficult to use correctly.

I read the same Dempsey book. I do not remember Gans being given credit, though perhaps he was, but certainly recall the fall step discussion that Dempsey is such a proponent of. Gans was apparently kind of famous for the sound his jab stomp made.

Yes, you still see fighters using the fall step, but today more emphasis is on floating movement, which contrdicts the fall step. It is a thing of beauty to see that step and the jab together integrated into a fighter's reflexes. Holmes definitely threw both types of jabs--the floating flicker (which is an arm punch) and the straight fall step smash to the mug. He had them well integrated and sometimes traded off. Tyson possessed a deadly up-jab that he was always stepping into.

Garcia, eh? Good to know.

Well, the thing is, mankind has been engaging in hand to hand combat of one form or another from time immemorial. Some things just make common sense--like staying out of the way of a sword. In a swordfight, one would definitely want to be defensively responsible! As long as armies have existed--and possibly before--methods of training for attack and defense have been codified and installed. These were based on experience and weaponry. The first guy to ever parry a blow had a name which was a medium pitched grunt.

But like you say, we can kind of trace things in boxing to who at least popularized a move by becoming an unprecedented master of it.

[billeau2]

You see punching with a step in many of the older chinese matial arts and even in the ancient martial arts of India. In karate one transfers this step into the hip movements but this actually detracts from bringing all the weight to bare in a straight punch....the karate guys make up for it with speed and hip thrust.

[Ray Corso]

Lunging with power into your jab seems to be a forgotten technique. It seems the commitment to go inside with a power jab and stay inside is a thing of the past.
I taught to step up by pushing off and striding in with the jab aimed to the chest at first. A higher percentaghe of finding the target, then looking for the chin.
You don't see any fighter working underneath their last punch when working on pads! I don't see anyone rotating under and coming up punching.
Theres nothing difficult about the technique, repititions are the key and adding solid pivot moves can increase both offense & defensive skills.

For me I look back at Jack Johnson as the "modern day" beginning!
He was doing things no one before him did and then adding Mr. Blackburn as a student of his just brought techniques into boxing that inspired the Joe Louis's and Pep and B. Leonard and Gans and all the men who added boxing moves into their fight methods. Some stayed "purists" others became better fighters by learning that using distance for offense & defense was a legitimate technique for both methods.

Jack Johnson to Mr. Blackburn to Ray Arcel........
Fans link Arcel to Duran and don't know he trained many champions long before Duran. He was a trainer who believed in boxing skills to unable a fighter to position himself to throw harder punches without paying a toll to get into position. "hit and not get hit" W. Pep.

Theres so many fine trainers who added so much to the game, without them we'd still be towing the line.

Ray.

[billeau2]

Lunging with power into your jab seems to be a forgotten technique. It seems the commitment to go inside with a power jab and stay inside is a thing of the past.
I taught to step up by pushing off and striding in with the jab aimed to the chest at first. A higher percentaghe of finding the target, then looking for the chin.
You don't see any fighter working underneath their last punch when working on pads! I don't see anyone rotating under and coming up punching.
Theres nothing difficult about the technique, repititions are the key and adding solid pivot moves can increase both offense & defensive skills.

For me I look back at Jack Johnson as the "modern day" beginning!
He was doing things no one before him did and then adding Mr. Blackburn as a student of his just brought techniques into boxing that inspired the Joe Louis's and Pep and B. Leonard and Gans and all the men who added boxing moves into their fight methods. Some stayed "purists" others became better fighters by learning that using distance for offense & defense was a legitimate technique for both methods.

Jack Johnson to Mr. Blackburn to Ray Arcel........
Fans link Arcel to Duran and don't know he trained many champions long before Duran. He was a trainer who believed in boxing skills to unable a fighter to position himself to throw harder punches without paying a toll to get into position. "hit and not get hit" W. Pep.

Theres so many fine trainers who added so much to the game, without them we'd still be towing the line.

Ray.

"hit and not get hit" Willie Pep

"Hit em where they ain't" Wee Willie keeler

[Bald Shavers]

Logically, all of the boxing techniques of today had their origins in prehistoric and ancient times. Jabs, straights, hooks, and uppercuts were done by the ancient pankrationists, who also kicked, did takedowns, choked, and made various submission moves now seen in MMA.

Having said this, here are some techniques that have been attributed to modern fighters.

The Corkscrew Punch - Kid McCoy

The Rope a Dope and the Ali Shuffle - Muhammad Ali

The Bolo Punch - Ceferino Garcia

The Shoe Shine - Angelo Dundee/Sugar Ray Leonard

The Dempsey Roll - Jack Dempsey

The Pacquiao Punch - B.J. Penn

I hope you guys can add more. Mayweather's shoulder roll came from George Benton or Charlie Burley but it could have come earlier.

[NChristo]

Logically, all of the boxing techniques of today had their origins in prehistoric and ancient times. Jabs, straights, hooks, and uppercuts were done by the ancient pankrationists, who also kicked, did takedowns, choked, and made various submission moves now seen in MMA.

Having said this, here are some techniques that have been attributed to modern fighters.

The Corkscrew Punch - Kid McCoy

The Rope a Dope and the Ali Shuffle - Muhammad Ali

The Bolo Punch - Ceferino Garcia

The Shoe Shine - Angelo Dundee/Sugar Ray Leonard

The Dempsey Roll - Jack Dempsey

The Pacquiao Punch - B.J. Penn

I hope you guys can add more. Mayweather's shoulder roll came from George Benton or Charlie Burley but it could have come earlier.

Ali Shuffle should belong to Jersey Joe Walcott, not called the Ali shuffle obviously but he used too do the same thing every now and then, not sure if anyone earlier did it.