Joe Louis vs any great heavyweight

[mickey malone]

My own critique of Marciano was to demonstrate that any fighter can be picked apart and that to focus solely on a fighter's weakness is being intellectually dishonest. While I'm not a fan of Marciano I do have respect for him and an his accomplishments, and unlike many posters here (including many I respect as knowledgable posters) I consider Marciano and ATG and have him in my top-ten all-time (currently at number 9).

Poet

Ah... Float fishing for Tench... A traditional bottom feeder.. Through in the maggots & wait for dawn.....

[GJC]

Yes you're trying to impress the Louis nuthuggers by claiming you're a Marciano fan that respects Louis. What definitely is true is that you're no Rocky fan because you would have defended him against the moronic bloke above that tried to turn this thread into a Marciano bashing joke.
Yes begging. You asked me to give him credit way too many times and with too much dedication. It's obvious you'd get off on it and I'm not about to do that, mate. Use your left hand.
To the bolded part, that doesn't even make any sense. You sound like there lad. It's probably best not to drink before posting, unless you're ME. So it looks more like you're the confused lad.

I repost the bolded part with the two typing mistakes amended:

As to my state of mind, in the same post you say I'm begging you, I'm dwelling in my own misery and I'm annoyed but then I don't really care.

If it doesn't make any sense it was because I was answering by requoting your rants back to you.
As to my obviously not being a Marciano fan because I have not "defended him against the moronic bloke who turned this thread into a Marciano bashing joke"?
One: I hadn't read the post before you posted your latest drivel.
Two: You turned another thread about who was the worst role model into an anti Louis rant for little reason.

As to my begging far too much for you to give Louis credit, it was just for my amusement to highlight how personal and irrational this hatred you have towards Louis is. I am not a fan of Wlad but would happily name 6 ex HW champions I believe he would beat.

I suggest if you are drinking before posting you should stop as it may be affecting your medication.

[GJC]

Louis was past his prime when he fought Walcott and in the rematch knocked out Walcott. Yeah, the same Walcott that Rocky was struggling with and behind on points and took longer to knock Jersey out than Louis did. And Louis fought Walcott years before Rocky got to him.

Whilst Rocky fought Walcott 5 years ish after Louis did I wouldn't say Walcott was any less prime than when he fought Louis. Walcott's record was always a little spotty at the best of times, in the 5 fights before the 1st Louis fight he was 1-1 against Elmer Ray and 2-1 against Joey Maxim. Whereas he had made 2 solid defences against Charles before fighting Marciano. Also Walcott was one of those fighters such as Archie Moore and Hopkins who improved with age.
As to who was more effective against Walcott, Louis was lucky to get the nod in the first fight and ko'd Walcott in the eleventh in the 2nd fight.
Took Rocky a little longer in the 1st true but fairly swift ko in the second?

Hopefully this will appease Slimey and also show him how to make a point without ranting like a maniac

[Slimey Limey]

I've never shied away with my opinions towards Louis. I've posted for a long time and if anybody followed my posts they know Louis is my favorite fighter, however; I can't be a nuthugger because I would favor some fighters over Louis, agree that he has weaknesses, and I've discussed this in the past as well. Nuthuggers don't do that.

Your character that you are doing is that of nuthugger: Someone who is extremely bias towards one particular fighter to the point of worshipping his soul, ignorant towards the sport in general, and feel threatened by anyone that says a bad word towards your fighter. However, that last part I've never gotten the feeling was true with you because you just seem to be someone that is typing to annoy people. At least I hope so because that would just be sad if you were actually doing this truthfully.


Point on Marciano for Me: I've given credit to Marciano as a fighter and especially as an under 200 pound fighter. If we compare him with fighters under 200 pounds, I've always maintained that he was one of the best. The problem for me is putting him next to other HWs that fought legit 200+ pound HWs that were also over 6'0 tall.
Marciano fought certain kinds of fighters and because of that; it leaves him unproven in many ways.
We have footage of his fights and in those fights we don't necessarily see a "dominant" fighter like some make him out to be. He did have his weak points like everybody else. Even his power, for all the talk of that one shot that landed on Walcott which was one of the great punches in boxing history, Walcott did take many shots in prior rounds on the chin and didn't go down. So for those that act like Marciano didn't land a single punch up until that last devastating blow....need to actually watch the fight.
Many factors went into that final blow that made it devastating which is a part of boxing.

I could see him lose to a number of fighters because of his competition and how they did against him. How other fighters looked in their careers and the attributes they brought all while comparing the fighters to come up with an answer of who would be favored and why. People differ on their opinions when it comes to this but the point to be made by you has to have reasons for your picking.


Picture: Point is, Louis was shot. So much so that Marciano didn't want to fight him. So you have a "shot" fighter's picture being knocked out by a younger opponent.
That's like having a picture of a Grandfather being beaten up by his Grandson.


If you were to be a Marciano hater that extreme (and going by the way you post) would be to put up a picture of Marciano's plane crash as a symbol of defeat to the "undefeated" champion. An act of showing that he was mortal and lost to Nature.

Do you see the extremes you use now?

Obviously you do. You can't be that over the top and ignorant because if you are...that's sad.

You are truly the most disgusting Louis nuthugger I've witnessed here yet.

You are so desperate for me to stop speaking the truth about Louis that you try to use shock value, mentioning Marciano's death in your last attempt. You should be slapped silly for even going there and comparing me to something despicable like that.
I could have insulted Poet about his dead wife many times, I didn't. I could have made jokes about Louis dieing because he was a cocaine addict, didn't do that either.

While reading your post I can just picture you in my mind crying like a baby. But sorry Louis fanboy, if you only want to hear the fake super positive things about Louis go to a Louis forum. On this site however every fighter gets EQUAL treatment.

[Slimey Limey]

One: I hadn't read the post before you posted your latest drivel.
Two: You turned another thread about who was the worst role model into an anti Louis rant for little reason..

That does not answer the fact that you didn't stand up for Marciano like a true fan would. Instead, you let that Louis nuthugger **** on his entire career and even bring up his death, which should be blasphemy for any Rocky fan. Who are you still trying to fool lad?

As to my begging far too much for you to give Louis credit, it was just for my amusement to highlight how personal and irrational this hatred you have towards Louis is. I am not a fan of Wlad but would happily name 6 ex HW champions I believe he would beat.

If you care about my thoughts so much, make a seperate thread where you can interview me about opponents that Louis would beat. But mate, don't ask me irrelevant questions going completely off topic in a thread just for you own sick amusement.
Now, a good technique for your begging would be bribing. Try it out lad.

[Benny Leonard]

Whilst Rocky fought Walcott 5 years ish after Louis did I wouldn't say Walcott was any less prime than when he fought Louis. Walcott's record was always a little spotty at the best of times, in the 5 fights before the 1st Louis fight he was 1-1 against Elmer Ray and 2-1 against Joey Maxim. Whereas he had made 2 solid defences against Charles before fighting Marciano. Also Walcott was one of those fighters such as Archie Moore and Hopkins who improved with age.
As to who was more effective against Walcott, Louis was lucky to get the nod in the first fight and ko'd Walcott in the eleventh in the 2nd fight.
Took Rocky a little longer in the 1st true but fairly swift ko in the second?

Hopefully this will appease Slimey and also show him how to make a point without ranting like a maniac

You can only improve technically with age and even then, with declining attributes such as speed, reflexes, stamina...you are still going to have flaws. As far as conditioning, nobody beats Father-Time. You can do your best to slow the decline through genetics, good living, training, rest, etc, but their is no beating the aging process.

Even Hopkins, for all his incredible work-ethic and clean living, and modern nutrition/science/Doctors/Specialists; he declined physically with age. This is where Hopkins started to be called a "boring" fighter. His stamina wasn't the same so he threw less and conserved energy. Even Allen, who fought Hopkins 3 times (or so) said Hopkins had declined as a fighter...which included Hopkins power.

The point with Walcott also was that it shows what he was. He's lost many times before and has been knocked out before Marciano got to him...let alone a past prime Louis.

Also of note are the wars Charles, Moore, and Walcott went through before Rocky. Matter of fact, they were beating the **** out of each other all before Rocky got to them. YES, that does matter.
All were over the age of 30; all had many fights under their belt which included many Wars, being knocked down and knocked out.

[Benny Leonard]

You are truly the most disgusting Louis nuthugger I've witnessed here yet.

You are so desperate for me to stop speaking the truth about Louis that you try to use shock value, mentioning Marciano's death in your last attempt. You should be slapped silly for even going there and comparing me to something despicable like that.
I could have insulted Poet about his dead wife many times, I didn't. I could have made jokes about Louis dieing because he was a cocaine addict, didn't do that either.

While reading your post I can just picture you in my mind crying like a baby. But sorry Louis fanboy, if you only want to hear the fake super positive things about Louis go to a Louis forum. On this site however every fighter gets EQUAL treatment.

Are you really that blind that you missed the point?

This is my quote. I didn't think it was that hard to understand the point

Picture: Point is, Louis was shot. So much so that Marciano didn't want to fight him. So you have a "shot" fighter's picture being knocked out by a younger opponent.
That's like having a picture of a Grandfather being beaten up by his Grandson.


If you were to be a Marciano hater that extreme (and going by the way you post) would be to put up a picture of Marciano's plane crash as a symbol of defeat to the "undefeated" champion. An act of showing that he was mortal and lost to Nature.

Do you see the extremes you use now?

Louis being shot = him being dead (as a fighter). To use a picture of a dead fighter and prop it up like it is some sort of feat and this goes with something that is symbolic...it will be the same with my point with Rocky while using the extreme.
All is for shock and to piss off the other side and to show they are Human after all. That was my point to you but obviously you miss the point.

If it was an innocent picture to show Rocky at his peak of his climb to the title, then it would be OK despite it being a shot version of Louis on the other end. In a way, it shows we all fall; we all will decline...and the younger, hungrier, in prime fighter will bring you down if you stay to long. But in a discussion when you are ripping the fighter in the picture, then it becomes something else.


If you go back and forth with shock tactics that is the result of both sides going at it. You rip on Louis's life outside of boxing and things about Marciano's outside life come about which aren't Saint like. Have I brought them up in this discussion? NO.

And for Louis: I've always talked freely about his use of drugs in his life with others. His affairs and so on. I don't have a problem with that. He is flawed like the rest of us.
I've also said Ali has a better resume; the best HW resume in History actually. I've also said I have a list of fighters that could probably beat Louis.

And your point now is?




So here are some questions:

Where does Rocky rate all time at HW?

Can any HW in history beat Rocky?

How does Rocky beat a Prime Louis?

Who was Rocky's best wins and were they in their prime?

Name me a HW that Rocky faced that was naturally over 200 pounds that was good?

Please use detailed answers.

[Ascended]

limey was right when joe was dropped by who he was galento and struggling with Billy and max not getting him out fast

none of these dudes would ever drop or give trouble to a George ali ron razor mike holy fury and mutiple others which shows joe wasnt that good

why is it you people act so crazy joe was real stiff basic and slow it's like you people cant see look how they moved back then and compare to 70s-90s how does joe even make it out of amateurs he doesnt why is that hard to admit he would be destroyed its obvious stop being crazy and acting blind people

remember George he changed
he stopped wasting as much punches
he developed real defense
he had a better jab
he picked shots better

joe would need to do the same upgrade cause the comp was better In movement and skill

[Willie Pep 229]

Hey, isn't this that 2009 post where the guy died?

I thought the Mods had taken this one down permanently? What happened?

[billeau2]

limey was right when joe was dropped by who he was galento and struggling with Billy and max not getting him out fast

none of these dudes would ever drop or give trouble to a George ali ron razor mike holy fury and mutiple others which shows joe wasnt that good

why is it you people act so crazy joe was real stiff basic and slow it's like you people cant see look how they moved back then and compare to 70s-90s how does joe even make it out of amateurs he doesnt why is that hard to admit he would be destroyed its obvious stop being crazy and acting blind people

remember George he changed
he stopped wasting as much punches
he developed real defense
he had a better jab
he picked shots better

joe would need to do the same upgrade cause the comp was better In movement and skill

fck off troll...