Is Wlad an All Time Great Heavyweight?

[knn]

Do they have to be white too? Mainly fight in Germany? How limiting do you want this?

What the heck? I just asked for your top 20 heavyweight ATG (since this is the thread topic).

And I don't think you qualify for a heavyweight ATG toplist if have near-0 heavyweight fights (like Marciano).

If finding ATGs with 20 heavyweight fights is too difficult for you then give me your top 20 consisting of fighters who fought at least 15x real heavyweight fight (= both opponents 200+). Come on FIFTEEN REAL HEAVYWEIGHT FIGHTS. Is that too much to ask for? I am not even asking you for 15 GOOD opponents. ANY opponents.

Unfortunately it excludes Louis, Marciano, Dempsey, Jeffries, Ezzard Charles, Schmeling, Patterson, Johansson, Tunney, Sharkey, Archie Moore, Jerry Quarry and even Sam Langford. Strange how the heavyweight ATGs disappear as soon as you erase cruisers...

Frazier barely makes it with 18 fights. EIGHTEEN freaking real heavyweight fights. Record of 13-4-1. 8 KOs.
His only world title KOs in real heavyweight fights came against fatty Buster Mathis (30-4), Ramos (25-29), Ellis (40-12) and Ron Stander (37-21). But I bet you would put this 13-4 guy ABOVE Wlad.

This is where you go wrong in your arguments, you say you use facts but you are selective.
When Ali fought Frazier in 1971 was it titled as being for the Heavyweight Championship or was it listed as for the Heavyweight Championship until obviously bigger guys come along in which case we'll retrospectively call it for The Cruiserweight title?

If you beat a 190+ opponent it counts as cruiserweight in my book. Who cares whether Schmeling vs Louis was called "heavyweight title" once? 190+ vs 190+ is a cruiserfight. If you want you can call it "old-era-heavyweight" or "medieval heavyweight" or "cruiserweight formerly known as heavyweight" or something like that. Just make sure that you don't put Joe Louis on the same list like Lennox. You can compare Marciano with Roy Jones Jr but not with Tyson.

I just kind of count heavyweights as people who have fought heavyweight bouts as named by the various sanctioning bodies through history. Its not scientific but it works for me!

I guess that means you put Wlad in a Top20 heavyweight ATG toplist, but you cannot name the other 19 heavies. OK, understood.

[knn]

I assume you mean Jose Roman not Ribalta? I know you like to pick up others when they quote or spell a name wrong but I wont.

You are correct, I meant the bum Jose Roman (53-26), not the bum Jose Ribalta (39-17)..

You think Chaguev is a good fighter, would beat Ali, Foreman, Frazier etc?

Why should anyone care? Chagaev would beat most of the 70ies boxers. As would any better nowadays heavy.

[GJC]

Unfortunately it excludes Louis, Marciano, Dempsey, Jeffries, Ezzard Charles, Schmeling, Patterson, Johansson, Tunney, Sharkey, Archie Moore, Jerry Quarry and even Sam Langford. Strange how the heavyweight ATGs disappear as soon as you erase cruisers...

I guess that means you put Wlad in a Top20 heavyweight ATG toplist, but you cannot name the other 19 heavies. OK, understood.

No you got me Wlad or Vitali are the top two ATG Heavyweights who are white, tall, big, heavy, new, fight mainly in Germany and weigh a lot and fight a lot of other HEAVY people.
You won
Personally I would rather watch Joe Louis floss his teeth than watch either of the Klit brothers but its a choice thing.
Good luck with the retrospectively trying to eliminate every heavyweight from the history books if you pull it off then everyone will acknowledge the wonder of Wlad.

[knn]

Good luck with the retrospectively trying to eliminate every heavyweight from the history books if you pull it off then everyone will acknowledge the wonder of Wlad.

I am not eliminating heavyweights from history. I just remind people to compare those old era boxers with nowadays cruisers and not with nowadays heavies.

[GJC]

So first I am Tunney and now I am Knn? Sorry bud, I thought you were smarter than that. Biased perhaps, agenda driven perhaps, but stupid is not something I would've called you.

I am curious how you give ZERO credit for Rahman and Vitali for their performances against Lewis (given his weight at the time,) but give full credit to Lennox for his win over David Tua. You then go on to use this fight where Tua supposedly hit Lennox with multiple clean left hooks, as proof that that version of Tua beats the current (tighter defensed) Wlad. This fat (245,) bloated, out of shape version of Tua, even. Hilarious.

Anyway, the answer to this thread is yes, he's just not a top 10 ATG HW, yet. But that is certainly something that is achievable for him, if he continues to do what he's doing for another 3 or 4 years.

Well there do seem to be a lot of people with multi id's around if you arn't one of them then I apologise.
As for the whole Tua bit I assume that is directed at someone else as I don't believe I mentioned Tua.
I have no agenda or bias I just don't believe boxing begins and ends with Wlad and Vitali. I respect them and believe they carry theirselves well as champions just not my cup of tea. If that makes me a hater as is thrown about a lot then I'll live with it.