Boxing Forum
Navigation
Go Back   Boxing Forum > Boxing Forums > Boxing History

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-05-2017, 11:29 PM #11
joseph5620 joseph5620 is offline
undisputed
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Calabasas, Calif
Posts: 11,261
Quoted: 1928 Post(s)
Rep Power: 36
joseph5620 has a reputation beyond reputejoseph5620 has a reputation beyond reputejoseph5620 has a reputation beyond reputejoseph5620 has a reputation beyond reputejoseph5620 has a reputation beyond reputejoseph5620 has a reputation beyond reputejoseph5620 has a reputation beyond reputejoseph5620 has a reputation beyond reputejoseph5620 has a reputation beyond reputejoseph5620 has a reputation beyond reputejoseph5620 has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 16,262.00
Bank: 1,000.00
Total Points: 17,262.00
a knowledgeable poster - Carnivore Great Poster! - Barnburner I would say you have the IQ of a rodent. But that would be an insult to the rodent.. - Unknown Champ quality posts - Stokely cheers mate - The Noose 
loves muhammad's c0ck - Weltschmerz 
Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - JAB5239 
Default

[QUOTE=billeau2;18113295]Is English your first language? The piece is not bad, like all pieces it could use some editing. if you ever want to run a piece you do of this length by me feel free to do so.

Regarding your points about Golota: His rise to fame coincides with the steady rise of athletic talent in that part of the world. For example, in basketball where Eastern European youth started to show considerable talent. What Golota lacked was what most talented fighters from far away lands lacked, including many Nigerian fighters, for example...namely the right infrastructure.

How important is infrastructure to the development of a fighter? well Cuba and Puerto Rico together are not very big...yet these island nations have always had incredible fighters, why is this? It is because of talented coaching, training programs in boxing. So when a guy like Golota reached a pinnacle, he would have the "polish" and the skill sets to forge ahead. I actually think Nigeria is very similar to Poland in that there were a lot of very talented fighters who fought ammy but could not really shine in the pros due to the changes that are not addressed unless one is with a great gym and coaching program.

Golota himself was quite talented. He had good fast hands, good punches, but never could get the most important aspect, the feet! Golota also did have psychological issues as well to be fair.[/QUOTE]


I think that's a huge part of his downfall.
joseph5620 is offline   Reply With Quote
Advertisements
>>>TO REMOVE THESE ADS, PLEASE REGISTER HERE FOR FREE<<<
Old 10-06-2017, 12:06 AM #12
Sugar Adam Ali Sugar Adam Ali is offline
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Peoria illinois
Posts: 31,934
Quoted: 8662 Post(s)
Rep Power: 85
Sugar Adam Ali has a reputation beyond reputeSugar Adam Ali has a reputation beyond reputeSugar Adam Ali has a reputation beyond reputeSugar Adam Ali has a reputation beyond reputeSugar Adam Ali has a reputation beyond reputeSugar Adam Ali has a reputation beyond reputeSugar Adam Ali has a reputation beyond reputeSugar Adam Ali has a reputation beyond reputeSugar Adam Ali has a reputation beyond reputeSugar Adam Ali has a reputation beyond reputeSugar Adam Ali has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 36,935.00
Bank: 1,000.00
Total Points: 37,935.00
a truly ATG poster - here's an apple to sustain that brain power - jas It's Easter time, here's an Easter Egg for being the most knowledgeable poster bar none - jas Always spitting out the truth. - Augustane You made some good and fair points for Pac Algieri matchup - hectari couldnt green, but excellent post on violent crime punishment - sugarsmosley 
appreciate the green - -jose- cheers - Beercules beer's on me bro - Mike D Well said - -jose- racist coward - boxingsupreme87 
Real talk - jas war sugar - Mike D No Message - mathed Have some popcorn my brotha! - Mighty_Windir Suck my BBC, yall will lose then never see a repurblican win again.,, - STAX ON DECK 
For think'n you're relevant ! LOL ! - BERNIE'S CORNER Good posts - ΣNΣMY One of the best posters here - 1bad65 Spitting truth bout towels - Shontae De'marc Stock Savvy - BoxingFan85 
Children with Disabilities - Parkinson's Disease - VACTERL - Young Onset Parkinson's Association - jas Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - jas Cultural Diversity - Hunger - Leukemia - Lupus - Melanoma - Racial Tolerance - Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy Syndrome - Self Injury - jas Emphysema - Lung Cancer - Lung Disease - Multiple Sclerosis - jas AIDS/HIV - DARE - DUI Awareness - Epidermolysis Bullosa - Heart Disease - Lymphoma - MADD - Substance Abuse - jas 
World Trade Center Victims and Heroes - Fireworks Safety - jas 
Default

I knew Lennox lewis was truly the goods when he iced golata like it was nothing..


Lennox always stepped up huge in big fights.

Him destroying Morrison, ruddock, golata, and grant was some terrific heavyweight moments of the 90s
Sugar Adam Ali is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2017, 12:44 AM #13
jdoro63 jdoro63 is offline
Amateur
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 17
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Rep Power: 0
jdoro63 is on a distinguished road
Points: 5,017.00
Bank: 1,000.00
Total Points: 6,017.00
Default

Good question. Whatís brought up the most in Poland is that Golota fled the country in an attempt to avoid prosecution for assaulting a man at a bar where there was a weapon involved. Golota has had his share of legal matters in the U.S. as well, but in Poland these are not as heavily publicized except for the 2012 news story that broke out about Golota facing deportation to his native country. In general, the perception of his image in Poland is not too different than in America. His countrymen view him as one of the most astounding/perplexing characters in boxing history. But that doesnít change Polesí national love affair with Golota. While many in the country question his behavior, they still find it amazing that he was able to generate so much publicity and fame amid controversy. They appreciate his boxing talent in the ring far more than American fans. And that is the biggest difference between how's he's received by Polish fans compared to American fans.
jdoro63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2017, 01:02 AM #14
jdoro63 jdoro63 is offline
Amateur
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 17
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Rep Power: 0
jdoro63 is on a distinguished road
Points: 5,017.00
Bank: 1,000.00
Total Points: 6,017.00
Default

Very interesting points you raise there, thanks for sharing. I never considered it from that perspective before. Nor have I ever heard a similar perspective. When I think about what you shared, it starts making perfect sense because the relatively weaker status of Polish Boxing starts at the amateur level and the poor structure of the Polish Boxing Association (PZB). The PZB has some bad management but a biggie is a lack of money necessary for proper training. There simply isn’t enough participation of Polish amateur fighters in international tournaments. My guess is a similar structural crisis exists in not only Nigeria but other African countries as well. But in general, Polish Boxing has declined recently and it’s nothing in comparison to the Golden days of the Olympics in the 1960s and 1970s and this has a lot to do with why training is on a relatively low level.

What has crossed my mind before, however, is the comparison of a Polish heavyweight to a Nigerian heavyweight. Amazing that the glory division has historically been loaded with so many talents of Nigerian descent (Ibeabuchi, Peter, Akinwande, Hide, Dokiwari, Izon, Ahunanya, Ugonoh, Joshua). Despite this wide talent pool, only one official world titleholder went down in history as an official Nigerian heavyweight champion who fought under the white and green flag. And this is where I wanted to point out that I believe Nigeria has suffered a little more than Poland as far as what country fighters decided to represent. Think about how good Anthony Joshua might become. Yet some people will not even know he’s Nigerian! All of the guys I listed above could have all fought for Nigeria. But I think the points you raised about certain elements missing is possibly the explanation for why some of these fighters didn't remain in the country. The talent for Poland at heavyweight was also loaded (Golota, Sosnowski, Adamek, Wach, Wawrzyk, Szpilka, Ugonoh, Kownacki) but all of these guys actually competed for Poland. Yet zero champions. Interesting dichotomy there.

I will send you a private message regarding your comments atop.

Last edited by jdoro63; 11-22-2017 at 10:06 PM. Reason: Missing words
jdoro63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2017, 04:36 AM #15
OctoberRed OctoberRed is online now
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: London
Age: 41
Posts: 9,710
Quoted: 3719 Post(s)
Rep Power: 78
OctoberRed has a reputation beyond reputeOctoberRed has a reputation beyond reputeOctoberRed has a reputation beyond reputeOctoberRed has a reputation beyond reputeOctoberRed has a reputation beyond reputeOctoberRed has a reputation beyond reputeOctoberRed has a reputation beyond reputeOctoberRed has a reputation beyond reputeOctoberRed has a reputation beyond reputeOctoberRed has a reputation beyond reputeOctoberRed has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 14,864.60
Bank: 1,000.00
Total Points: 15,864.60
Long Overdue. For your contribution to NSB. - 1hourRun I concur - jazluvr 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdoro63 View Post
Good question. Whatís brought up the most in Poland is that Golota fled the country in an attempt to avoid prosecution for assaulting a man at a bar where there was a weapon involved. Golota has had his share of legal matters in the U.S. as well, but in Poland these are not as heavily publicized except for the 2012 news story that broke out about Golota facing deportation to his native country. In general, the perception of his image in Poland is not too different than in America. His countrymen view him as one of the most astounding/perplexing characters in boxing history. But that doesnít change Polesí national love affair with Golota. While many in the country question his behavior, they still find it amazing that he was able to generate so much publicity and fame amid controversy. They appreciate his boxing talent in the ring far more than American fans. And that is the biggest difference between how's he's received by Polish fans compared to American fans.
I remember something where he was arrested with a lot of guns and some woman was claiming sexual assault, but then nothing was ever reported about it ever again.
OctoberRed is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2017, 12:51 PM #16
billeau2 billeau2 is offline
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,848
Quoted: 2133 Post(s)
Rep Power: 24
billeau2 has a reputation beyond reputebilleau2 has a reputation beyond reputebilleau2 has a reputation beyond reputebilleau2 has a reputation beyond reputebilleau2 has a reputation beyond reputebilleau2 has a reputation beyond reputebilleau2 has a reputation beyond reputebilleau2 has a reputation beyond reputebilleau2 has a reputation beyond reputebilleau2 has a reputation beyond reputebilleau2 has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 12,852.00
Bank: 1,000.00
Total Points: 13,852.00
Grade A explanation of punching technique. - - Ram Raid - Knowledgeable - -Weltschmerz- Happy holidays and best wishes for 2016 - -Weltschmerz- Lmao - -Scott-Weiland- 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdoro63 View Post
Very interesting points you raise there, thanks for sharing. I never considered it from that perspective before. Nor have I ever heard a similar perspective. When I think about what you shared, it starts making perfect sense because the relatively weaker status of Polish Boxing starts at the amateur level and the poor structure of the Polish Boxing Association (PZB). The PZB has some bad management but a biggie is a lack of money necessary for proper training. There simply isnít enough participation of Polish amateur fighters in international tournaments. My guess is a similar structural crisis exists in not only Nigeria but other African countries as well. But in general, Polish Boxing has declined recently and itís nothing in comparison to the Golden days of the Olympics in the 1960s and 1970s and this has a lot to do with why training is on a relatively low level.

What has crossed my mind before, however, is the comparison of a Polish heavyweight to a Nigerian heavyweight. Amazing that the glory division has historically been loaded with so many talents of Nigerian descent (Ibeabuchi, Peter, Akinwande, Hide, Dokiwari, Izon, Ahunanya, Ugonoh, Joshua). Despite this wide talent pool, only one official world titleholder went down in history as an official Nigerian heavyweight champion who fought under the white and green flag. And this is where I wanted to point out that I believe Nigeria has suffered a little more than Poland as far as what country fighters decided to represent. Think about how good Anthony Joshua might become. Yet some people will not even know heís Nigerian! All of the guys I listed above could have all fought for Nigeria. But I think the points you raised about certain elements missing is possibly the explanation for why some of these fighters didn't remain in the country. The talent for Poland at heavyweight was also loaded (Golota, Sosnowski, Adamek, Wach, Wawrzyk, Szpilka, Ugonoh, Kownacki) but all of these guys actually competed for Poland. Yet zero champions. Interesting dichotomy there.

I will send you private message regarding your comments atop.
Yes I got the message and You are a good sport! When I initially answered on this thread I had intended to speak at length about a few more things and I got called away suddenly. Such is living in Baltimore... the incident involved a very angry, very bald, black guy screaming on a cell phone, and some ladies in the hood including my wife, a lot of dogs barking and a plea for me to try to restore order.

LOl. Anyhow I said a few things in the PM that should be qualified here: My feeling about the language of our Op had to do with his rhythm and timing. It felt to me that he was expressing through a germanic type language...I know this is a weird observation but different languages express things in very different manners depending on what the thing is being described. My observation was not to suggest that the piece, or the use of the language was lacking, I think it was well written. it was at a stage where one can start to subtract and tighten up things.

Just wanted to make that clear. And the most important thing about writing is to just keep doing it, it is a craft, and one gets better at it the more they do it. The subject is an interesting one. From many angles... Identity crisis! We have the Soviets, the East German Bloc, and the other players who have big boxing programs, then we have places like Brooklyn New York, where many Eastern European fighters have come. where does Poland sit?
billeau2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2017, 07:20 PM #17
jdoro63 jdoro63 is offline
Amateur
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 17
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Rep Power: 0
jdoro63 is on a distinguished road
Points: 5,017.00
Bank: 1,000.00
Total Points: 6,017.00
Default

You're a good sport as well! I just messaged you back. Please let me know if you received it (time-stamped today) as it doesn't appear as sent on my end.

Anyway, as I wrote in my PM, my rhythm and timing was in such a manner because I wanted to be as descriptive and very specific about the topic and fighter I was writing about. I totally agree that writing is a craft that takes time and everyone could use that fine tuning!

In terms of where Poland sits on the boxing hemisphere, I will just say that we will have to wait a very long time for the next world champion to emerge from the nation. It's too bad Krzysztof Glowacki lost his title but Usyk was just a cut above indeed. A major reason regarding Poland's relatively poor standing is its lack of strong amateur pedigree, which I touched on recently. Nowadays other Eastern European nations such as the Ukraine are much stronger in boxing than Poland.

I am very glad you appreciate and acknowledge Eastern European fighters at least because on the whole, American fans aren't committed to the sport enough to be as globally sensitive. That's why American fans couldn't care less about the accomplishments of such Eastern European pioneers as Alex Zolkin and Andrew Golota.

Last edited by jdoro63; 10-07-2017 at 07:23 PM.
jdoro63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2017, 07:41 PM #18
jdoro63 jdoro63 is offline
Amateur
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 17
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Rep Power: 0
jdoro63 is on a distinguished road
Points: 5,017.00
Bank: 1,000.00
Total Points: 6,017.00
Default

Yup, that was back in 2006 when Golota was charged with 12 misdemeanor counts of possessing unregistered firearms. A man allegedly approached two women walking not far from his home and ordered them into his car at gunpoint; this man drove the two women to a house, which police later identified as Golota's. Both women escaped, but one of them was supposedly sexually assaulted in one of the bedrooms and one of these women reportedly identified Golota as her attacker.

Nothing serious came of the gun charges, Golota may have just been fined or something to that effect. And if my memory is correct, there wasn't enough evidence in the sexual assault claim at the time and the case was dropped.

I personally wish Golota did not have such a spotted criminal record. It only worsens his reputation the most.

Out of curiosity, I'd like to ask you, what do you consider to be Golota's biggest achievement in boxing?
jdoro63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2017, 08:15 PM #19
PRINCEKOOL PRINCEKOOL is offline
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,321
Quoted: 489 Post(s)
Rep Power: 4
PRINCEKOOL has a reputation beyond reputePRINCEKOOL has a reputation beyond reputePRINCEKOOL has a reputation beyond reputePRINCEKOOL has a reputation beyond reputePRINCEKOOL has a reputation beyond reputePRINCEKOOL has a reputation beyond reputePRINCEKOOL has a reputation beyond reputePRINCEKOOL has a reputation beyond reputePRINCEKOOL has a reputation beyond reputePRINCEKOOL has a reputation beyond reputePRINCEKOOL has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 6,321.00
Bank: 1,000.00
Total Points: 7,321.00
Default

Andrew Golota for a short period of time, was the most dangerous man in heavyweight boxing! His two fights up against Riddick Bowe, displayed both his mental vulnerabilities but? Also his immense skill, and at times beautiful technical punching ability! (I was only a kid at the time, and for some reason I did not watch the fight live! The next morning following the fight, I can remember watching a news bulletin thinking to myself? Lennox Lewis is the real deal!).
PRINCEKOOL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2017, 11:26 PM #20
ShoulderRoll ShoulderRoll is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 31,743
Quoted: 10144 Post(s)
Rep Power: 0
ShoulderRoll has a reputation beyond reputeShoulderRoll has a reputation beyond reputeShoulderRoll has a reputation beyond reputeShoulderRoll has a reputation beyond reputeShoulderRoll has a reputation beyond reputeShoulderRoll has a reputation beyond reputeShoulderRoll has a reputation beyond reputeShoulderRoll has a reputation beyond reputeShoulderRoll has a reputation beyond reputeShoulderRoll has a reputation beyond reputeShoulderRoll has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 31,746.00
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 31,746.00
excellent posts mate - Alx. good post about Wlad being like Bute - RossCA To a good poster - ROSS CALIFORNIA To a good poster - ROSS CALIFORNIA brewed just 4 u - sugarsmosley 
valuable advice to training forum - jas Thanks for the green man,I should have won poster of the year,but the site is in denial.bitches huh ? - Scott-Weiland All in .&amp;w - BERNIE'S CORNER Phone spazzed on gift giving. Can't green ya but have this beer on me. All in good fun ! - BERNIE'S CORNER Easily one of the best posters on the forum - JK1700 
To wipe that ass lol - BigZ44 Good thread and comments - maracho A truce - lfc19titles A truce - lfc19titles 
Default

As part of the Golota story it should be mentioned that he was suspected of steroid use. Both Riddick Bowe and Lennox Lewis accused him of it.

If true that might explain some of his irrational outbursts and behavior.

Also you mentioned Kostya Tszyu but if we are talking about the first wave of Eastern Europeans into pro boxing then Yuri Arbachakov and Orzubek Nazarov deserve a mention and shouldn't be forgotten.

Last edited by ShoulderRoll; 10-07-2017 at 11:44 PM.
ShoulderRoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share This With Friends

Tags
boxi, eastern, european, history, hits, later:, lewis-golota, polish, wave, years

User Tag List

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump


 

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:17 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.