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Old 11-18-2019, 11:30 PM #81
bballchump11 bballchump11 is offline
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Originally Posted by Boxing_1013 View Post
Yeah again I don't really see that argument at all either:

Looks like for Danny it would be:
Thurman
Porter
Matthysse
Khan

Would be his top 4 fights...I don't even know which of the others I would really list as the 5th.

GGG
Canelo
Canelo
Jacobs
Murray
Lemieux

You're a huge Canelo fan...so how would you spin that to say that now that list for GGG is worse pfp than Danny's list...again just doesn't make a bit of sense lol..no offense man.
Martin Murray ****ing sucks. Why does anybody actually rate him? His best win is a draw to Felix Sturm.
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Old 11-18-2019, 11:34 PM #82
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Martin Murray ****ing sucks. Why does anybody actually rate him? His best win is a draw to Felix Sturm.
Lol why are you so emotional though...and he was a top 10 MW who, if the fights were fought in a neutral place, would probably be 3-0 vs Sturm, Abraham and Martinez...and since on here we hype up wins over big names even if they are somewhat past it, people should love Martin Murray for that performance vs Sergio!! lol

OK if you say Murray sucks...just keep that same energy for other guys who have similar issues getting results in big/close fights...you better say John Mugabi sucks too.
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Old 11-18-2019, 11:35 PM #83
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OK by your logic I hope you give Marvin Hagler no credit for his win over Mugabi...since Mugabi never beat anyone.

And again you have to look at form going into a fight man...what version of that guy did you beat...not taking that into account is just pure casual level stuff and as boxing fans we shouldn't really be pounding our chest that we are ignoring that.

By your logic I could hype up GGG's win over Vanes since Vanes drew with Lara...Jacobs best win would be SD btw...but spin it however you want man...you can believe whatever ya want
My logic is pretty simple.

Golovkin's resume is not good compared to many other fighters including danny garcia who have better resumes with notable, credible wins over notable credible fighters. Other people understand my logic simply enough, if you're having trouble with it, sorry.
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Old 11-18-2019, 11:37 PM #84
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Originally Posted by Boxing_1013 View Post
Dude Lemieux dropped Ndam 4 times lol...I mean idk if you watched that fight or not, or if you were just picking your side of this argument going in...but why would you mention the rd by rd scores of the judges and not the actual scores there...115-109 twice...and 114-110...most people give Ndam 3 of the last 4 rounds too...so the fight was way over by then anyway...that one wasn't close at all.

I would add that Martinez probably won every round vs Chavez before the 12th...I think he just decided to drop his gloves and put on a little show...and I'm not really hyping up the 11-1 score to big up Martinez...Chavez never lets his hands go so he always loses rounds anyway...he would always have lost 12-0 to Sergio, at whatever point in their careers it happened.

Maybe when Sergio was completely shot Chavez would have won a few rounds or something...but yeah I think Sergio was just trying to put on a little show...to be fair, I don't think Chavez would have been even able to do that/win 1 round vs Maravilla if Sergio was 100%...so I am not arguing that Sergio was 100% prime there...I think he broke his left hand early in that fight too.

Just saying that the version Murray fought was a decent version...and most who watched feel he should have won..especially not getting credited for the 2 KDs he should have had...yes Martinez was shot vs Cotto...and not 100% vs Murray...but notice the knee sleeves vs Cotto and them not being there vs Murray...I think he was pretty clearly way worse off when he faced Cotto...Martinez knew he was done and Cotto just paid him for the scalp...truth be told we've seen that before and will see that again.

I would say the Lemieux and Murray that GGG faced were like 7.5-8s out of 10...a faded Cotto at 155 was probably about a 7 imo...Martinez vs Murray was probably about a 7.5...Martinez over a year later vs Cotto...maybe a 6?...hard to say really....Mosley at that time of the Canelo fight was maybe a 7.

So yeah I don't think we are too far off...just depends on how you place those numbers exactly...I know for me I give more credit to any guy facing a prime, on a roll fighter at their natural weight than I do for a past prime guy fighting at not his best weight...I do that for anyone not just GGG.
Lemieux dropped N'Dam 4 times, yet three Canadian judges in Canada, could only find, 6, 6, and 7 rounds to give him. Let's be real here.

And yes, I did watch that fight, and had the fight been in even a 16' ring rather than the MAYBE 15' ring (when the fight was supposed to be in an 18'-20' ring), Lemieux would've gotten smoked again.

No one is saying that Martin Murray can't fight; at least that's not my intention. Still, Murray has shown himself to be a C/C+ fighter, and you're trying to sell him as being something he's not.

Gennady Golovkin has had a handful of actual fights during his pro career; Geale, Brook (legit fighter jumping two weight classes), Jacobs, Alvarez, Alvarez 2, and Derevyanchenko.

Beyond that, you basically have a handful of C level fighters (Murray, Lemieux, Monroe, Rosado coming up from 154, Proksa, Kassim Ouma coming up from 154 and being faded) and utter **** after that.

For Danny Garcia, in his real legit fights, you have Porter, Thurman, Peterson, Matthyssee, and Khan.

If you look at the C/C+ level guys on the ledger, you've got Theophane, Campbell, Holt, the first Morales fight, Guerrero, Malignaggi, Herrera, Granados, Judah, and Rios.

Let's be objective here
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Old 11-18-2019, 11:38 PM #85
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Golovkinís resume is more on par with Brandon Rios.
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Old 11-18-2019, 11:41 PM #86
Boxing_1013 Boxing_1013 is offline
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Originally Posted by bballchump11 View Post
Martin Murray ****ing sucks. Why does anybody actually rate him? His best win is a draw to Felix Sturm.
Btw you sh.it on Murray...who basically showed everyone watching/paying attention that at 160 he about as good as Sturm, and about as good as a somewhat past it Sergio...and by 'about as good' I mean some could say he was better, some may think he was about even etc...and showed at 168 he was about as good as Abraham.

Yet you probably hype up wins for all 2 or 3 of those guys, even around the times of those fights...no offense but I just feel like all of you guys are big fans on here, not really boxing guys ya know.
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Old 11-18-2019, 11:43 PM #87
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Originally Posted by ikigai View Post
My logic is pretty simple.

Golovkin's resume is not good compared to many other fighters including danny garcia who have better resumes with notable, credible wins over notable credible fighters. Other people understand my logic simply enough, if you're having trouble with it, sorry.
You didn't answer the Mugabi question though? That is the part where I questioned your 'logic'.

Your definition and notable, credible fighters is just subjective man...you appear to hype up some guys while dogging guys at that level or a very similar level.

You are entitled to your opinion though...but yeah you seem a bit off here.
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Old 11-18-2019, 11:44 PM #88
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Golovkinís resume is more on par with Brandon Rios.
I miss that guy that had the crying Brandon Rios as his avatar
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Old 11-18-2019, 11:44 PM #89
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What good wins would you give Lucas in his career, especially before Danny? Of course Provno***ov was a good win after that...and Lamont before was a decent win too.

But he lost to Danny, Judah and Alexander...Lemieux lost to Rubio, GGG Alcine and BJS....and he beat Ndam and Rosado...I don't really see this great separation between Lemieux and Mattysse there..hell a lot of people on here were saying Lemieux GGG was 50/50 at that time...that's how good Lemeiux's form was going in to that fight...and Mattysse was in good form as well.

He boxed fairly even with DSG though while GGG ran over Lemieux.
Matthysse should have wins over both Judah and Alexander. Matthysse should have been undefeated going into the Garcia fight. Plus Matthysse improved as a fighter after Alexander relying on more aggression. Matthysse was more of a boxer puncher early on which probably cost him in those robberies.

He dropped DeMarcus Corley 6 times after the Judah fight when Corley had just recently gave Madiana and Provodnikov all they could handle.
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Old 11-18-2019, 11:49 PM #90
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Lol why are you so emotional though...and he was a top 10 MW who, if the fights were fought in a neutral place, would probably be 3-0 vs Sturm, Abraham and Martinez...and since on here we hype up wins over big names even if they are somewhat past it, people should love Martin Murray for that performance vs Sergio!! lol

OK if you say Murray sucks...just keep that same energy for other guys who have similar issues getting results in big/close fights...you better say John Mugabi sucks too.
Because some of the things I'm seeing written in here are ridiculous. I haven't even addressed those "Lemieux is on the same level as Canelo" comment yet.

Martin Murray has lost to everybody. He puts up tough performances, but comes short because he's a professional loser. He has a good chin and type defense, so it's hard to outclass him. He doesn't open up and is mediocre, so he never does actually win.

And screw Hagler. You won't see me defending him.
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