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Old 11-18-2019, 11:02 AM #21
travestyny travestyny is offline
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Originally Posted by Rusty Tromboni View Post
The real question isn't how good would Ali have been in his "best" years, the question is would he have survived Frazier? Seems unlikely. And that is an opinion that can be substantiated by fact.
What fact would that be? That he beat Joe a few years later, or that he beat him again after that?

Last edited by travestyny; 11-20-2019 at 10:48 PM.
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Old 11-18-2019, 11:41 AM #22
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Originally Posted by Rusty Tromboni View Post
Nailed it.

Ali fans try to argue his first iteration was the better because that is when he was undefeated. They try to argue that the late 60's would have been his best years because it's an assertion that can't be proven wrong.

the funny thing is, going into exile did Ali waaaay more favors than harm: he basically dodged Joe Frazier in his prime.

The real question isn't how good would Ali have been in his "best" years, the question is would he have survived Frazier? Seems unlikely. And that is an opinion that can be substantiated by fact.
- -Ali didn't go into exile to duck Joe.

They would've met circa 68-69 but for Ali being persona non grata with the US Gov and poison for promoters.

The only reason he went overseas and Canada was to make fights happen that he was denied, the whole reason Liston 2 was in Maine. Nobody wanted to see a NOI/mafia shootout. Ali was poison for business, half the reason he did duck the Wilt fight in 67.

See the fate of Malcolm!!!
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Old 11-19-2019, 06:05 AM #23
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What fact would that be? That he beat Joe less than a year later, or that he beat him again after that?
There you are! We were wondering where you've been. You still telling the girls at the salon about me?


Joe Frazier was in his prime in the late 60's. The win over Ali was towards the end of his prime. That fight took a lot out of Joe, too.

It's typical for swarmers to have shorter careers. The training and fighting really wear out the body. Especially if they're active, like Frazier and his analog, Armstrong were.

Ali avenging the loss is impressive, but he still took a hellacious beating from a man who was far past his best.
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Old 11-19-2019, 06:10 AM #24
Rusty Tromboni Rusty Tromboni is offline
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- -Ali didn't go into exile to duck Joe.

They would've met circa 68-69 but for Ali being persona non grata with the US Gov and poison for promoters.

The only reason he went overseas and Canada was to make fights happen that he was denied, the whole reason Liston 2 was in Maine. Nobody wanted to see a NOI/mafia shootout. Ali was poison for business, half the reason he did duck the Wilt fight in 67.

See the fate of Malcolm!!!
I never said he did.

In fact, I have said many, many times that I am impressed that he rushed back so quickly to fight Frazier. No one would blame him, except bias critics, if he'd taken a more meandering scenic route back to the title. He could have easily spent a couple of years padding his careers with nobodies. It's basically how he spent his career pre-exile. Then, when Joe was threadbare, Ali could have swooped in for the title. He had the style to always give Ali headaches (and parkinsons), but his chances diminished year by year.

He didn't. He fought Quarry (no one else dared fight Ali), doing what no one else could do to that great warrior. He fought Bonavena doing what no one else could do to that so-so warrior. And he fought Joe. He had a great warm-up fighting Quarry and Bonavena, but that was a really rushed entrance into a fight w/ an absolute animal who still had just enough left to give Ali the battering of his career.
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Old 11-19-2019, 07:48 AM #25
travestyny travestyny is offline
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Originally Posted by Rusty Tromboni View Post
There you are! We were wondering where you've been. You still telling the girls at the salon about me?


Joe Frazier was in his prime in the late 60's. The win over Ali was towards the end of his prime. That fight took a lot out of Joe, too.

It's typical for swarmers to have shorter careers. The training and fighting really wear out the body. Especially if they're active, like Frazier and his analog, Armstrong were.

Ali avenging the loss is impressive, but he still took a hellacious beating from a man who was far past his best.

Nowhere in there do I see a fact that proves Ali couldn't have beat him earlier.

I think you need to think about what you say, as there doesn't exist a fact that proves that. You're welcome.


Ps. The girls at the salon agree that you're not very bright.
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Old 11-20-2019, 09:02 PM #26
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Ps. The girls at the salon agree that you're not very bright.
that's fine. ya'll don't give me brain for my brains. But I would appreciate it if you'd satisfy my request to coordinate your lipstick.

All the different colors has given me months rainbow dick. And it's starting catch on so much that it might be my new nickname. Please don't do that to me.


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Originally Posted by travestyny View Post
Nowhere in there do I see a fact that proves Ali couldn't have beat him earlier.

I think you need to think about what you say, as there doesn't exist a fact that proves that. You're welcome.
Ali at his absolute best got beat. BAD. Joe smashed him. It is incredible that Ali went the distance and made a fight of it, but he didn't just lose, he got beat.

And even as late Manilla, Joe made a hell of a fight of it.

The lighter Ali wouldn't have faired as well. And he couldn't have simply hung on until Joe got old to get his revenge.

Joe was ON FIRE in the late 60's. His performances were every bit as impressive as Cassius Clay's. Just ask George Chuvalo.
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Old 11-20-2019, 09:27 PM #27
travestyny travestyny is offline
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Originally Posted by Rusty Tromboni View Post
that's fine. ya'll don't give me brain for my brains. But I would appreciate it if you'd satisfy my request to coordinate your lipstick.

All the different colors has given me months rainbow dick. And it's starting catch on so much that it might be my new nickname. Please don't do that to me.




Ali at his absolute best got beat. BAD. Joe smashed him. It is incredible that Ali went the distance and made a fight of it, but he didn't just lose, he got beat.

And even as late Manilla, Joe made a hell of a fight of it.

The lighter Ali wouldn't have faired as well. And he couldn't have simply hung on until Joe got old to get his revenge.

Joe was ON FIRE in the late 60's. His performances were every bit as impressive as Cassius Clay's. Just ask George Chuvalo.


Your fantasies about [email protected] sex is almost as bad as your comments on boxing.


Still waiting for what "fact" proves that Ali couldn't have beat Joe earlier in his prime. You claim facts prove it, yet you give a remarkably stupid opinion instead.

Let's see if you can answer a simple question. Was Ali better in '67 or '71?

I get the feeling you'll come back with more [email protected] fantasies, gay boy.

Last edited by travestyny; 11-20-2019 at 10:50 PM.
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Old 11-20-2019, 11:01 PM #28
Rusty Tromboni Rusty Tromboni is offline
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Originally Posted by travestyny View Post
Your fantasies about [email protected] sex is almost as bad as your comments on boxing.


Still waiting for what "fact" proves that Ali couldn't have beat Joe earlier in his prime. You claim facts prove it, yet you give a remarkably stupid opinion instead.

Let's see if you can answer a simple question. Was Ali better in '67 or '71?

I get the feeling you'll come back with more [email protected] fantasies, gay boy.
Who won March 8th, 1971 in Madison Square Garden?

You've got a 50-50 shot of answering it correct. Don't be scurred, homie! Take aim and fire!
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Old 11-20-2019, 11:09 PM #29
travestyny travestyny is offline
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Originally Posted by Rusty Tromboni View Post
Who won March 8th, 1971 in Madison Square Garden?
What the actual fvvck does that have to do with who would have won before Ali lost 3 years of his prime????

There is no fact that would prove what would happen between them at an earlier time. Your whole premise is just as ******ed as you are.

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Originally Posted by Rusty Tromboni View Post
You've got a 50-50 shot of answering it correct. Don't be scurred, homie! Take aim and fire!
Just did, you big dummy. You guys try to do this with your fantasy fights all the time....which is merely what it says. Your own fantasy about what would happen. There is no fact that proves what you claim it does.

If you think losing 3 years of Ali's prime helped rather than hurt him, you're a bigger idiot than I thought. And I didn't think that was possible.


So again, what fact proves that Ali would have lost? Waiting....
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Old 11-20-2019, 11:23 PM #30
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Originally Posted by travestyny View Post
What the actual fvvck does that have to do with who would have won before Ali lost 3 years of his prime????

There is no fact that would prove what would happen between them at an earlier time. Your whole premise is just as ******ed as you are.



Just did, you big dummy. You guys try to do this with your fantasy fights all the time....which is merely what it says. Your own fantasy about what would happen. There is no fact that proves what you claim it does.

If you think losing 3 years of Ali's prime helped rather than hurt him, you're a bigger idiot than I thought. And I didn't think that was possible.


So again, what fact proves that Ali would have lost? Waiting....
That's a really long answer, when all you had to say was two words.
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