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Old 06-16-2017, 01:31 PM #61
1bad65 1bad65 is offline
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Originally Posted by Sugar Adam Ali View Post
Thank you for the info..

Sounds like government officials should be held responsible.. in America, locally we have zoning codes so this stuff doesn't happen.

Sounds like officials did it on the cheap and this disaster is a result
Always follow the money.

And sadly in cases of socialism it often leads right to Government or those in bed with them. (Crony capitalism)

But it's the rich folks fault doe.
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Old 06-16-2017, 01:41 PM #62
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Originally Posted by 1bad65 View Post
Always follow the money.

And sadly in cases of socialism it often leads right to Government or those in bed with them. (Crony capitalism)

But it's the rich folks fault doe.
Don't worry about it, once Labour gets voted into power and Corbyn becomes PM, they'll just start confiscating private property and have a 90% tax on the rich and then everything magically fixes itself. If the rich and well off doesn't want to play ball, well, a few extra judicial killings a la the Killing Fields will get them in order. After all they will have the consent of the people to do it!

As chairman Mao would say, "Political Power grows out from the barrel of a gun!"
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Old 06-16-2017, 02:33 PM #63
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Originally Posted by 1bad65 View Post
Charity.

It's not Peter's duty to pay for Paul's housing.
Haha!

It would be more charitable if Peter ate Paul. Reminds me of the Swift poem about rich people eating the poor.

I say poem. Future Tory Manifesto.
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Old 06-16-2017, 03:07 PM #64
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Have you actually heard/read what he actually said? Clearly not! He in no way said to seize the properties, as suggested by the mail.

Try getting your news from somewhere other than the **** rags that you have clearly been reading.
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Old 06-16-2017, 03:39 PM #65
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Originally Posted by EL_GRINGO View Post
What the fnck is wrong with me? what the fnuck is wrong with you seizing peoples private property's when hotel rooms can be rented and gyms can be used,should have expected that from an Arsenal supporter,no wonder Sanchez is leaving
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Originally Posted by Sparked_26 View Post
O.k. I'll have a go but it's messy.

High house prices and decreased public spending (it was a council building) are central to this and essentially people being cheap and greedy like Adam said.

I think Americans call council buildings projects. But essentially that was what the building was. But.......there were also private owners in there.

So these private owners took an opportunity to buy these flats which are shit by the way even if that building was fire safe.

There were buy-to-let property there for 2,000 pounds a month, ffs. I know that area. It is not dangerous but it aint nice either but that's another issue but it tells you something about the monetary value of these properties despite the 'plebs' that lived in them.

That building had a 8.7 million renovation which replaced windows and put in a heating system they also put cladding on the building which had proved a fire-risk in a big blaze in Australia in 2013.

The council dropped their preferred contracter because it cost more than they wanted to pay not much more btw 1.6 million which in London terms is nothing. In fact, the average property value of a house in Kensington is 1.5 million. Hence the term used by Adam of inequalities. If you really break down if they spent 2 more on aluminium panels people would still be alive depending on what you read.

The contract was put out to tender and won by some cowboys who offered to replace windows and the heating system for 8.7 million actually saving the council 2.5 million. So the council presumably wanked themselves into a coma with glee whilst rubbing caviar into each others tits.

The big upshot of this job done on the cheap is that the cladding on the building could have made it fire resistant for 5,000 pounds more. And they used the cheap aluminium panels which are actually banned in America. . The cladding acted like a chimney and helped spread the fire quickly and kill all those people

It is corporate manslaughter basically. Because the building was renovated on the cheap. Non-essential renovations were made and duty of care neglected regarding the gas and the cladding was installed as some kind of thermoregulation strategy or some **** but what it turned out to be was a giant death chimney.

Common sense says close to a 100 people will have died in that building. That is the level of this atrocity despite what's been reported so far but I understand that bodies need to be identified.

So yeah simple greed is a fair shout.

I didn't have to type all this because the below is all that is needed:

A cheap council contracted a cheap contractor who done a cheap job.


For the sake of 1.6 million maybe a hundred people have died. Again the average price of home on the other side of that town is 1.5 million. Not a big massive home you'll understand.

As an aside there was no fire evacuation procedure either and previous resident complaints about a power surge that nearly caused a similar incident were ignored.
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Originally Posted by Kosta View Post
Corbyn would be irrelevant by now were it not for the hardcore left wing youth vote with virtually everyone in Europe atm under age 25 seeming to be a total hardline socialist

Tbf I can understand why. Living in London there is so much inter generational inequality. Most baby boomers have had it so easy, getting well above inflation pay rises their whole career, never having to really compete for jobs, no idea what it feels like to go against 100 other graduates for one position and 4 rounds just to not get a fairly average entry level job, and even the pay from that barely covers ur rent in a shared flat where all u have is basically a bed, no above inflation pay rises for decades, never saving enough to get out the rental trap.......and meanwhile r average English baby boomer has a couple of rental properties and is raising rent to keep young people in it gold playing their own pensions

Then we have the financial crash, we all lose our jobs, but then the taxes are raised on us, cost cuts on us, all to maintain the pensions of this already spoiled generation

Then there's no money left for the nhs. Most boomers covered with private insurance but young people now struggling to get seen by doctors and meanwhile those young people who made it to be doctors now earning less after expense se than ur average hospital receptionist made in 1980 adjusted for inflation and when property was 5 times cheaper in real (!) terms and getting a mortgage was like getting Pringles

Now I'm in my 30s have a house own it myself and very settled with my wife and enjoying life. But as much as corbyn doesn't resonate with me ideologically how can anyone in Western Europe not see the kids pov? They have been so royally screwed over by our capitalism
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Originally Posted by Bygeorge View Post
The problem isn't capitalism. The real problem is crony capitalism, monopolies, and price gouging that certain industries practice in.

These greedy neo-liberal conservative bastards need to be hung out to dry along with the criminal contractors in charge of the recent development.

The death toll is well in excess of 100. Men, women and children have been burned alive, children orphaned, loved ones lost, all for the sake of a few quid and making the exterior of the block look nice for their wealthy neighbours. The issues run far deeper than this one incident.

There has been systematic gentrification across London for a generation now. Since that war criminal (Blair's) demise, the theft of public property has only speed up with Cameron and now May at the helm of a corrupt Conservative party.

This isn't Socialism vs Capitalism, but the average working class man standing up to the corporate elite that tries to play one race off against another all the while robbing this country blind of its wealth.

Take this dailymail article for example. It is a *****ing disgrace.

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Old 06-16-2017, 05:23 PM #66
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Originally Posted by 1bad65 View Post
Bingo!!

That's it alright there.

Notice this was PUBLIC housing. You dont have that in a pure capitalist system.
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Originally Posted by 1bad65 View Post
Charity.

It's not Peter's duty to pay for Paul's housing.
In other words, let them live on the streets.


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Old 06-16-2017, 05:34 PM #67
Sugar Adam Ali Sugar Adam Ali is offline
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Thanks for your kind definition of capitalism. I am in favour of those things. Hence why I've not said capitalism is wrong.

It does have an adverse effect. There is no think about it, but here is the kicker it is possible for me to say that it has an adverse effect in SOME ASPECTS. But just because I think capitalism has SOME bad points it doesn't mean I am a communist who thinks capitalism is totally wrong.

You need to stop thinking in such an us against them kinda mindset.

I won't explain how they are negative things because I don't think they are. I'm really not sure what you're arguing at this point.

You seem to be someone who sees things very black and white i.e if you don't love capitalism then you're a socialist.

There are good and bad aspects of each system and I favour a mixed system. I don't know how much plainer I can be.

At this point you're just arguing with yourself.

I don't think you know what a strawman is. Even your fruit analogy is a strawman because that isn't how our exchange went. So no it's not like me saying I hate fruit because I didn't say I hate capitalism.

Putting words in someone's mouth and arguing those words/deliberately misrepresenting someone's argument is a strawman. And that is what you're doing. Repeatedly

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.
You make solid points.. other points are dumb.. I'm stuck at a fundraiser right now, but I will give a better response later if I remember...
But a lot of what u said I agree with..
I just hate when capitalism gets criticized when it's the actual leaders that deserve the blame not the economic policy
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Old 06-16-2017, 05:45 PM #68
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Originally Posted by Hype Job View Post
In other words, let them live on the streets.
Not at all what I said.

Watch those strawmen.
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Old 06-16-2017, 05:53 PM #69
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Not at all what I said.

Watch those strawmen.
Have you ever heard of the saying 'I'm alright, Jack' used to describe someone?
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Old 06-16-2017, 07:59 PM #70
Adamjr91 Adamjr91 is offline
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600 people lived in Grenfell Tower. Only 76 people have been accounted for. Where are the rest? Why are the media downplaying the amount of people missing? Early reports were 12 dead. There are over 500 people unaccounted for.

There is no one left from that inferno. I feel sick.
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