Tweet
So when you wrote back in the day, did you do any pieces on the early UFC tournaments or when they started showing more kickboxing on cable TV before that? If so, what was your opinion of those things at the time?
-
-
Just read that Toney article. I'm a huge sucker for James Toney, so you may have picked the right display piece. Quite a writer.Originally posted by billeau2 View PostComment
-
I answered this privately because I had to ask anthony if he was talking to me or Escudo. lol.Originally posted by Anthony342 View PostComment
-
I wasn't sure either but I'd like to hear you thoughts on early MMA as well.Originally posted by billeau2 View PostComment
-
Brazil, like most cultures, when compared to other cultures, has certain points that fit differently in the cultural matrix and present themselves often enough, as comical, absurd, etc, when compared to America.Originally posted by escudo View Post
When we think of martial arts teachers we think of images of Bruce Lee, Chuck Norris, etc. Then we see a hustler on the corner playing 3 card monte and have bad thoughts about this individual. brazil embraces the trickster, the hustler and the first Gracies here used those tricks to expose people to their art. They would offer to take on challengers, sometimes in the streets, have cash payments made for lessons on the spot, etc.
anything was done to promote their name...
Brazil traditionally had a vital Martial culture to begin with... from the Capoerista with razors between his toes, to guys like Maestro Bimba, street guys who learned to use Capoera to survive in the cities, all the way to folk wrestling, boxing and no rules fights. Because of the macho enticements of the culture, fighting in Brazil was a social enterprise, with all the pomp and circumstance of the Charles Atlas 98 pound weakling, reborn in the image of a superman specimen.
In this society the originally Scottish Clan of the Gracies, were on the upper crust...so the Scotch they drank was single malt no doubt, and the usual carnival of Martial enticements for a young man, of lutte Livre wrestlers, boxers, Capoeristas, would not do.
Alas, brazil also had a tradition of japanese expatriotism that extended far and wide...If one looks carefully at Brazilian history, there was quite an exchange between the Portagese and the Samurai... From thrusting techniques using the sword, introduced by Spanish fencing schools, to the importation of Jpanese martial arts systems into Portugal and brazil, this exchange between the Japanese and Portugese produced yet another element into brazil, fighting for supremacy as the ultimate system of combat for a young buck having to prove his worth to a damsel.
Judo was the rain maker when it came to this area of Japanese martial prowess, that was developed in brazil. During the war Judo had stopped in japan, It is a supreme irony to those who know, that Kodokan Judo when allowed to continue with conditions after the war... was at first quite primitive because of the lack of practice. In countries with good Japanese martial influence, particularly in Brazil and Russia (via Sambo) Judo training never ceased and evolved considerably! Naturally these skills became a vital part of the evolution of the fighting circuit in Brazil: To this day many people will tell you that so called brazilian Jiu Jitsu is in fact brazilian Judo. At any rate the Gracies were taught by miada, a count and diplomat, in the art of Japanese Jiu Jitsu and Judo. others were also taught by maida, BTW and there are in fact many brazilian Judo, Jiu Jutsu, and even classical Gendai grappling systems operating in Brazil.
The Gracies were in fact, not particularly "better" than the other systems, but they were richer, had the spirit of entepranurial enterprise and used these assets, along with the street corners of LA, to start the UFC. These early tournaments had the backing of people like the "Dog Brothers" a South East asian influenced, vis a vis Bruce Lee, syndicate that specializes in full contact stick fighting...perhaps thinking they had a kindred spirit in the Gracies they offered to do these weapons matches at the UFC and were rebuffed by the Gracies. The UFC was always about the Gracies.
Documentary evidence suggests that lutte Livre, the arch nemisis of the gracies for much of the tournament syndicate in brazil, were affairs where one group would win one day, and vice versa...hardly the domination the Gracies suggested. Lutte Livre was an art with wrestling and joint locks, and was a type of folk wrestling with locks and strikes. Vale Tudo was the type of match where "anything goes." These matches preceded the Gracies, and involved a host of near do wells including strongmen with an urge for violence, criminals, Capoeria fighters, wrestlers and Judo players.
That is pretty much the start of the UFC. The Gracies were part of a larger tradition and rebranded it to rub some nickels together. If you guys want to know I can go on and into the tournament once it arrived here.Last edited by billeau2; 02-19-2017, 09:14 PM.Comment
-
Yes, please do. I heard originally, the owners wanted a student of Ken Shamrock's, but then decided to invite Shamrock himself and a fighting legend was born in the US, after being known already in Japan. Do you know which student that was? My guess would be Guy Metzger, since he later competed himself. And what do you know about boxer Art Jimmerson, who competed in the first tournament? How good a boxer was James Warring?Comment
-
That school the Lion's Den was well known as a training facility. Probably because there were very few MMA places being that it wasn't invented yet! What you had was Shoot fighting in Japan, guys like Bart Vale, many of whom lived on the West Coast. japan was a major fan base for combatives... everything from wrestling to shootfighting, kick boxing, etc.Originally posted by Anthony342 View Post
I don't know specifics about students at the Lion's Den. As far as boxing goes there were a lot of kick boxers around, not the same as boxers per se...Juggy bless his heart makes a great point when he makes a distinction, many people back then did not. I would be skeptical because back then many so called boxers and thai boxers were kick boxers.Comment
-
Good stuff Bill.
Any insight as to why a random town seemingly in the middle of nowhere like Bettondorf Iowa became one of the greatest producers of talent in MMA history?Comment
-
From interviews of the fighters from there, I'd say because there's not much else to do there but farm, work out and train.Comment
-
Know anything about boxers Art Jimmerson or James Warring? I remember Bart Vale from WCC tourney.Originally posted by billeau2 View PostComment
Comment