Comments Thread For: Conlan: Golovkin is Sliding, I Don't Think He Wins Canelo Rematch

[A.K]

So GGG is irish?

- Slowwwww

[Boxing Logic]

He's not sliding, he just stepped up his competition. His last two fights showed it. I would say last 3 but he TKO'd Brooks.

You must be blind. I've been rewatching his old fights, even his sparring with Shane Mosley, on youtube the last few days, and his reflexes were miles better a few years ago. There were the slightest, slightest signs of decline early in the Rubio fight. Then just a little more, in the next fight, vs Monroe. Then he stayed steady, about 98% of what he was, in his next fights against Martin Murray, although I don't think he lasts 11 rounds vs prime GGG.

Against David Lemieux is where you really start to see big decline in GGG's hand speed. He was fighting someone on the same level as Curtis Stevens when he fought him (despite the fact Lemieux would later knock out past prime Stevens), but he could not land the power shots against Lemieux like he could against Stevens. The hand speed was in decline.

Then, the next year against Wade, you saw the snap really off the punches. Wade had no chin so he got taken out quickly regardless, but GGG looked softer, his punches looked slower.

Then the Brook fight was when GGG totally fell off a cliff. As a power puncher, he was approaching a shot fighter by that point, and ever since then he's had to win fights off his jab, his heavy handedness, his stamina, his footwork, his chin, and his fundamentals. The combination punching, the power punching, the fast, explosive body shots that he could set up in a millisecond and just unleash like a rocket, BOOM, have been mostly missing in the action since Lemieux. The left and right hooks that used come off effortlessly now look like he has to wind them up like a jack in the box for half a minute while his opponent takes a smoke break before he can unleash them.

He pushes his punches now. He gets arm weary halfway through rounds even early in the fight, something which never used to happen in such a pronounced way so early in fights. He looks slow and lethargic now. His punches don't have that snap, that acceleration into the target at the end, that they used to, which is why opponents have been consistently able to ride with his punches now. They don't land clean anymore. It's very similar to Manny Pacquiao's left hand later in his career. It still lands, but you don't see explosiveness in the punch anymore, and you don't see the opponent's head snap back anymore because the punch is no longer landing square on the target with velocity behind it.

It could be age. Others like Virgil Hunter and Victor Conte believe that overtraining in high altitude at this age has ruined all GGG's fast twitch muscle fiber, because there is not enough oxygen in the air during rest at Big Bear for the body to repair the high twitch muscle fibers he works out during the day, so instead the body builds the only muscle fibers it can with the lowered level of oxygen, the bulkier, slower muscle. Something like this.

That theory fits very much what I've been seeing with GGG the last three years, or, it could just be age. The same thing happened to Marvin Hagler around the same age. In fact, it's happened to many offensive fighters in the past. The list of all time great middleweights to have never won a title past the age of 35 is staggering. If you don't like GGG and you want your "I told you so" moment, I'm sorry but waiting until a fighter gets old and declines so you can say he's not a great fighter does not qualify. Join the club, everyone on every side of the GGG debate wanted to see what would happen when he fought elite competition in his prime, but it never happened and now none of us will ever get to find out. If Canelo had fought GGG two years ago instead of giving GGG his belt, maybe we would have found out. If any one of Martinez (he was aging too though), Froch (not elite but at least way bigger), Cotto, Quillin, Jacobs, Floyd, etc had taken up GGG on his offer to fight them during his prime, we would have found out, but they didn't. If Dmitry Pirog hadn't injured his back, we would have found out, but he did.

But, now we never will. 2017, another ****ty, overhyped, disappointing year for boxing, the only sport where an athlete can avoid the best opponents until they're old, still arguably lose to them when they're old, but still talk **** about them.

[Johnny2x2x]

You know, if you start fighting guys with actual pulses in your mid 20s at the latest like 99% of other fighters do you get to have several huge fights without worrying about aging.

GGG absolutely wasted his career fighting club fighters and tough man contest winners, and now people are talking about his age, LOL.

[Boxing Logic]

GGG absolutely wasted his career fighting club fighters and tough man contest winners, and now people are talking about his age, LOL.

He was ducked his entire prime. Starting in Germany they wouldn't promote him because they wanted to protect the cash cow there Felix Sturm. GGG got the same treatment in Germany that Rigo got from Arum, but you're going to blame him?

Then even after he got HBO's backing in the U.S, Martinez wouldnt fight him, Froch wouldn't fight him, Chavez Jr wouldn't fight him or Arum got in the way, Cotto wouldn't fight him, Canelo wouldn't fight him, Pirog was willing to fight him but hurt his back, Quillin and Jacobs wouldn't fight him until they saw major slippage against Brook. A combination of bad luck and being ducked have made GGG's career one with some of the most wasted potential in the history of boxing. I still agree with you though, even with all the ducking, GGG's promoter should have made it worth someone's while with a huge overpay, or just moved GGG to 168 even without big names there, during his prime, to allow GGG better opportunities, but Loeffler seemed more than happy to wait for the Canelo money. Either Loeffler didn't care about GGG's legacy, just the money, or he like a fool just took for granted that GGG's reflexes would still be prime until the age of 40.

I mean, you would hear all this completely misinformed bull**** coming from Loeffler all the time, about how "GGG hasn't been in tough fights, so he won't age quickly," despite the fact that wear and tear is only one aspect of aging in boxing. The other, main aspect, is simply age. You'd also hear him say stuff like, "GGG turned pro late, so he hasn't had that many fights of wear and tear," ignoring the fact that he only turned pro late because he had way more amateur fights than most pro boxers, which also gives you wear and tear.

So I mean, you heard all sorts of uninformed bull**** from Loeffler, so maybe he really just doesn't know boxing and completely ****ed it up by accident. You also heard him say stuff like "GGG's style is not dependent on speed, so age won't affect him as much," another completely insane, stupid comment. Every style is dependent on speed. Going from a 7 out of 10 speed fighter to a 5 out of 10 speed fighter is just as catastrophic as going from a 10 out of 10 to an 8 out of 10. In fact percentage wise 7 to 5 is a more significant decline than 10 to 8. GGG is a power puncher, so the exact moment he has enough speed to regularly land that power against top opposition, he becomes an elite fighter, but the moment he loses just enough speed to not be able to land that power consistently, his effectiveness absolutely falls off a cliff. And that is exactly what we've seen the last two years especially. His style is highly dependent on speed. His jab lands so often because it is the only one of his punches that is still almost as fast as it was during his prime, because of the simple, short motion compared to every other punch, and possibly the muscles involved. Every other punch is no longer landing consistently because they do not have that speed anymore.

So you're right, GGG's career has been a huge disappointment to me as a fan. Unlike you, figuratively speaking I won't let all the duckers off the hook for that in terms of their share of the blame, but like you, I also agree that either his promoter was willing to trade away all of GGG's remaining prime years a few years ago in exchange for the Canelo money, or, that he was so ignorant about how aging works with boxers who have the style of GGG that he naively expected GGG to still be in his prime until age 40, and did not realize that GGG was always likely to decline at 32 or 33 years old, like most other offensive boxers. Maybe it's a combination of both. But don't get it twisted, GGG is past his prime. Just go watch his older fights and compare it to the Canelo one, side by side, and you'll notice it. It's very obvious at this point.

[Nomadic]

You must be blind. I've been rewatching his old fights, even his sparring with Shane Mosley, on youtube the last few days, and his reflexes were miles better a few years ago. There were the slightest, slightest signs of decline early in the Rubio fight. Then just a little more, in the next fight, vs Monroe. Then he stayed steady, about 98% of what he was, in his next fights against Martin Murray, although I don't think he lasts 11 rounds vs prime GGG.

Against David Lemieux is where you really start to see big decline in GGG's hand speed. He was fighting someone on the same level as Curtis Stevens when he fought him (despite the fact Lemieux would later knock out past prime Stevens), but he could not land the power shots against Lemieux like he could against Stevens. The hand speed was in decline.

Then, the next year against Wade, you saw the snap really off the punches. Wade had no chin so he got taken out quickly regardless, but GGG looked softer, his punches looked slower.

Then the Brook fight was when GGG totally fell off a cliff. As a power puncher, he was approaching a shot fighter by that point, and ever since then he's had to win fights off his jab, his heavy handedness, his stamina, his footwork, his chin, and his fundamentals. The combination punching, the power punching, the fast, explosive body shots that he could set up in a millisecond and just unleash like a rocket, BOOM, have been mostly missing in the action since Lemieux. The left and right hooks that used come off effortlessly now look like he has to wind them up like a jack in the box for half a minute while his opponent takes a smoke break before he can unleash them.

He pushes his punches now. He gets arm weary halfway through rounds even early in the fight, something which never used to happen in such a pronounced way so early in fights. He looks slow and lethargic now. His punches don't have that snap, that acceleration into the target at the end, that they used to, which is why opponents have been consistently able to ride with his punches now. They don't land clean anymore. It's very similar to Manny Pacquiao's left hand later in his career. It still lands, but you don't see explosiveness in the punch anymore, and you don't see the opponent's head snap back anymore because the punch is no longer landing square on the target with velocity behind it.

It could be age. Others like Virgil Hunter and Victor Conte believe that overtraining in high altitude at this age has ruined all GGG's fast twitch muscle fiber, because there is not enough oxygen in the air during rest at Big Bear for the body to repair the high twitch muscle fibers he works out during the day, so instead the body builds the only muscle fibers it can with the lowered level of oxygen, the bulkier, slower muscle. Something like this.

That theory fits very much what I've been seeing with GGG the last three years, or, it could just be age. The same thing happened to Marvin Hagler around the same age. In fact, it's happened to many offensive fighters in the past. The list of all time great middleweights to have never won a title past the age of 35 is staggering. If you don't like GGG and you want your "I told you so" moment, I'm sorry but waiting until a fighter gets old and declines so you can say he's not a great fighter does not qualify. Join the club, everyone on every side of the GGG debate wanted to see what would happen when he fought elite competition in his prime, but it never happened and now none of us will ever get to find out. If Canelo had fought GGG two years ago instead of giving GGG his belt, maybe we would have found out. If any one of Martinez (he was aging too though), Froch (not elite but at least way bigger), Cotto, Quillin, Jacobs, Floyd, etc had taken up GGG on his offer to fight them during his prime, we would have found out, but they didn't. If Dmitry Pirog hadn't injured his back, we would have found out, but he did.

But, now we never will. 2017, another ****ty, overhyped, disappointing year for boxing, the only sport where an athlete can avoid the best opponents until they're old, still arguably lose to them when they're old, but still talk **** about them.

I thought this has been great year of boxing, but you do have a point about dodging the best until they are out dated. That's becoming a norm this decade and I don't see it getting any better.

[Don Mac]

Conlan is spot on.
Meanwhile Tom loeffler and DLH are engineering Cotto vs GGG then Canelo in May or September 2018
Kind of sucks, I dont want DLH to make another penny from Golovkin, hes ruining boxing and GGGs legacy

[Century Tuna]

It was a terrible decision one fighter was totally dominant the other was good in short bursts but not good enough on the night golovkin was robbed in my opinion

[Papa Smurf]

He's right but..

Conlan what a joke! fighting a hobo would be a step up to the peoples he's fought.

[bronx7]

Colnan come see me when you are pushing 40 stalled for two years by a guy who called you out 2 years earlier and he is 7 years younger than you then you beat him and they rob you of course your leaving your prime and he's in his still won

[bronx7]

Spot on they ducked him 2 years now will try it again knowing he's leaving his prime Canella in his