OFFICIAL: Donald Trump thread.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Lmao trump today said that he was a, "nationalist and a globalist".

Fcking moron, only thing dumber than him is the cuck puppets who follow and defend this idiot.

So at essentially 100 days in how's the wall and healthcare reform coming along? What exactly has Dump accomplished other than making himself and his administration a complete and utter embarrassment?

How are his supporters defending his flip flopping on NAFTA? He was to announce Saturday, on the 100th day of his presidency, that he was withdrawing from NAFTA. The same NAFTA during his campaign he called “a total disaster” and “one of the worst deals ever.”

Trump said, “I was all set to terminate,” Trump said in an Oval Office interview Thursday night. “I looked forward to terminating. I was going to do it.” He supposedly gets calls from Mexico and Canada urging him not to and that's it? That's all it took? Amazing.

You know, that was probably the one thing I really wanted Trump to do. I've been opposed of NAFTA since it was implemented by Clinton and I believe it's had terrible consequences. One reason I thought Trump would actually do it is because of his hard stance on immigration- before Clinton implemented NAFTA, there were only about 3 million illegal Mexicans in America. Illegal immigration then EXPLODED as a result of NAFTA and how much it hurt farming in Mexico, among other things, so many of them could no longer make a living and were forced to come here for work and a way to support themselves.

It's just another thing in an increasingly long list of things Trump is going back on.

How about Trump declaring NATO “no longer obsolete,” after months of saying it was?

Then of course Syria.

MAGA though! Its all good. Trickle down economics will eventually kick in, right guys?!

I supported trump as you all know... but I will be the first to admit, he hasn't gotten off to a great start. Few days ago in a thread about grading trump, I gave him a C-..

He has had some serious blunders..

Pros and cons so far

Con- His team was not very well vetted, and seems to be in constant turmoil

Pro- has lived up to some of his promises.. tough on immigration, selected some of the best business minds in America, looked to reform healthcare, more proactive in foreign military affairs, looked to reform tax code.. those are some things he talked about on the campaign that he followed thru on, or at least attempted and failed.. he didn't just say it and abandon it after the election.

Con- healthcare plan was stupid, backwards, and in general a complete disaster... trump so easily could have been a populist hero had he just pushed for the import of drugs from Canada and allowing competition across states lines for insurance.. that would have dramatically lowered costs for cotizens and not affected ones covered by Obamacare.. would have made every body happy or at least not pissed off. And the. You could have gone for a complete redo on healthcare after having some time to actual put together a plan that includes the 2 main problems- cost and coverage.. obamacare only fixed the coverage part, but made the cost problem worsen, that's why it's such a polarizing topic.

Major con- slowly reversing his stance on trade acts.. this one hasn't developed to its conclusion, but I will be watching. This is a deal breaker for me

Pro- his tax reform of taxing small business LLCs passthru income at corporate rate of 15%...

Con- his constant pissing contests with the press.... the press is stupid.. it's like lebron trying to argue with skip bayless... it's just gonna make everyone involved look stupid.. he did say he would be more presidential after he won the primaries

Pro- smoking hot First Lady and daughter

Con- small hands


Syria is still up in the air... chemical warfare was being used on a population, so I have no problem with trump intervening. People criticize the military tactics but I highly doubt trump drew those up himself.. most likely he listened to military leaders for best plan of attack, and their plan wasn't the best or executed the best

[ИATAS]

I agree education should be one of the most important things in society... but public schools are a complete disaster..

Not a complete disaster, there are plenty of great public schools. That's one of the issues though - there is a HUGE gap in quality. There is inequality in our public schools. There are good schools and there are bad schools. If you live in a poor community chances are you will go to a bad school. If you live in a nice suburb, chances are the schools are good. What I want is an increase of quality across the board - properly fund the underfunded bad/poor schools. Among many other things (I talked a lot about this already in previous posts). Did you read my post about Finland? They are #1 in the world in education. School is free for all k through college. But most importantly, all schools are funded equally. There are no bad schools, they are equal. Teachers are required to have a Master's degree. And you know what? Private schools don't exist.

But on top of that, our public schools have been deteriorating because that's exactly what Obama and Bush have been trying to do, by destabilizing public schools and shifting money into charter schools and private schools. What Trump is doing is a continuation of Bush and Obama. Why do you think he appointed DeVos to head Education when she said she wanted to destroy it? This is business as usual. Bush's No Child Left Behind and Obama's Race to the Top we're both intended to weaken public schools and increase private and charter schools.

I know you hate privatization of schools, but it makes schools incredibly effective and efficient... schools have to perform or people will stop paying, unlike public schools which have unlimited access to taxpayers money and they get paid no matter if they suck or not. Private schools don't have that option, they can't force money from people, like government does for public schools.

Private schools are private - they aren't subject to the same things public schools are - they don't have to take the same standardized tests and they don't reveal and make available their test scores in the tests they do choose to take. This idea that everything including education should be outsourced to private providers, which is what defines privatization, is not the answer. How long will it be until you have the "choice of garbage disposal" and us consumers get to choose between for-profit enterprises of "Comcast Dump" and "Microsoft Waste" to pick up our trash? Free Market, baby!

When it comes to schooling, the direct consumer is a child, who is in little position to judge whether or not classes are being properly taught. The parent, taxpayers and legislators are at a necessary distance. Standardized testing is one way to check on quality or major problems. As mentioned above, private schools are not part of that. It's concealed, private, not made available. They do not have transparency and accountability that public schools do.

Remember, Privatization means that a public service is taken over by a for-profit business, whose highest goal is profit. That motives are money, above all else. Think about that for a minute.

When we started to allow some Privatization of the prison industry, what happened? We saw lobbyists and prison unions lobby for tougher drug laws, criminalization for Marijuana rather than legalizing it and so on. More criminals more inmates more business. That's not good for society when money is the ultimate goal; ot outs profit above human lives.

No accountability in public schools

Simply not true, there is a lot of accountability in public schools, it's private schools that have no accountability.

There is a ton that goes into public schools, performance-based evaluations for teachers and principals based on multiple measures of effectiveness, professional development and feedback, educational standards through Common Core State Standards Initiative, and souch more.

Did you realize that Private schools are not required to partake in any of this? Betsy DeVos herself said she doesn't believe charter schools and private schools should meet the same accountability standards. Look at her when she was grilled on this very subject:
https://youtu.be/hoS9Z6p_EM8

too much greed as their pensions are always the reason schools are broke, not lack of funding, it's wasting funds on non-student related spending that is dragging down schools...

Post sources for this claim.

There are a lot of underfunded schools right now. Again, spending on education is not equal in this country and there are many schools that lack basic ****, like up to date reading materials and it's not to do with greed it's simply lack of funding based on the complex formulas on what schools get how much money and so on.

I do agree that education and healthcare should be priorities in society, but we must not let big centralized government dictate everything

Well it hasn't. Most of it's up to the state. The purpose of government involvement is to set standards. For funding, currently, public school funding comes from the federal government (10 percent), local government (45 percent, mostly through property taxes) and state government (45 percent). Much of federal funding has been for programs to assist low-income or disabled students. When these funds are ended, it will devastate whole working class communities.

[ИATAS]

Syria is still up in the air... chemical warfare was being used on a population, so I have no problem with trump intervening. People criticize the military tactics but I highly doubt trump drew those up himself.. most likely he listened to military leaders for best plan of attack, and their plan wasn't the best or executed the best

Of course he didn't draw up the plans. No president ever does (not at least in a very long time).

His Adminstration is basically half rich CEOs and the other half military war hawks.

I hope he understands his history though because listening to much to the generals and military advisor's can and will end up in disaster. JFK avoided thermonuclear warfare by not listening to the military advisor's who told him to nuke Cuba, immediately, in the early days of the Cuban missile crisis. In fact, they were openly belittling Kennedy, in the Whitehouse, insulting him for being "weak". Which we now know, if Kennedy did listen to them, the USSR would have immediately nuked the US. WWIII and perhaps we nuke ourselves to the stone age. Similarly, when JFK first got into office, he did listen to the generals who told him the Bay of Pigs was a quick and easy plan, which of course ended in disaster and embarrassment.

There were other close calls as well, hell even Eisenhower,a former general himself, had to fight with military advisor's on when and how to use nuclear weapons, avoid going to war, etc.

Point is, it's very dangerous game listening too much to the military advisor's. They will always want to settle things with violence and war.

I'm not arguing against the bombing of Syria either, but it does make me very nervous at how susceptible Trump is, who seems to be easily influenced by strong personality type people and people he respects. No doubt all this military buildup near North Korea is being played out almost exclusively by the military. Makes me very nervous.

[siablo14]

Do you even know what adjustments are and the context in which they are used for? Explain it to me.

This is hilarious. Throwing out research because you don't understand how it works. You realize the exact same SEP data showed Private school students do better across the board than public school students which you just "confirmed" with me, right? So you're ok with that data but not the data from the same research that shows Christian conservative students do worse in science and mathematics than public school students? You just played yourself.

Personally, I don't even care about the SEP data since I only used it for what I mentioned above, which was such a minor part of my post.




You realize you're asking me to source everything I've been explaining to you? You want me to go back, wuote myself and the sources I've already posted and you have the gull to say I'm slowing down the discussion? You still haven't even responded to the rest of my posts (in regards to DaVos). The entire point of Trump's education plan and "school choice" is using vouchers, tax payers money, to get students into religious schools, charter schools and private schools in general. That's the point we have been discussing.

In addition to the sources I already posted, here:
Betsy DeVos Wants to Use America's Schools to Build "God's Kingdom"

"There are not enough philanthropic dollars in America to fund what is currently the need in education...Our desire is to confront the culture in ways that will continue to advance God's kingdom." As we look at many communities in our country, the church has been displaced by the public school as the center for activity...[I]t is certainly our hope that more and more churches will get more and more active and engaged in education. giving parents the ability to pick any traditional public school or charter school in a district—to allow taxpayer money to follow students to any private school via vouchers.

"Trump's signature education proposal calls for dedicating $20 billion in federal money to help families move away from what he has called our "failing government schools" and instead choose charter, private, or religious schools."

"The DeVoses' foundation giving shows the couple's clearest preference is for Christian private schools. In a 2013 interview with Philanthropy magazine, Betsy DeVos said that while charters are "a very valid choice," they "take a while to start up and get operating. Meanwhile, there are very good non-public schools, hanging on by a shoestring, that can begin taking students today." From 1999 to 2014, the Dick and Betsy DeVos Family Foundation gave out $2.39 million to the Grand Rapids Christian High School Association, $652,000 to the Ada Christian School, and $458,000 to Holland Christian Schools. All told, their foundation contributed $8.6 million to private religious schools—a reflection of the DeVoses' lifelong dedication to building "God's kingdom" through education"

"Betsy and Dick DeVos have contributed hundreds of thousands of dollars to organizations seeking to privatize education and blur the separation of church and state."


Fox News
She has advocated for a controversial school voucher program in the past, which allocates federal taxpayer dollars to provide children the opportunity to attend private and religious institutions.

Business Insider
The cost to teach a public school student for one year, according to 2012 data, is approximately $10,615. An education voucher lets parents apply that money to a private or religious schools. As secretary of education, DeVos has promised to expand existing voucher programs in line with President-elect Trump's goal to provide more school choice.

NY Times
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/12/1...r-schools.html




Wild claim there comrade, considering I'm still waiting for you to address numerous points and information from previous posts. This "adjusted" data you speak of, for one you don't even understand it apparently and second it was only a tiny portion of my post. Even if you think "adjusted" means something sinister or something false, which it doesn't, the context is so small it means very little. Again, that SEP study backed up my claim that a). private school students typically performan better than public school students and b). Christian conservative school students do worse than public school students. That's literally it.

Do you even remember anymore what the context of me saying that was? You said your only concern is getting test scores up (which obviously isn't true). And I went on explaining a number of things, offered some opinions, data/research and so on. You have not commented on any of it, simply asked for a source in regards to Christian conservative school students and that's it. And you talk about me holding up the conversation? How about go back and actually reply to my points rather than holding up the discussion because you don't understand "adjustment" in statistical models (did you go to a Christian conservative school by chance?).




As I stated, which you left out (again), is this shift has already been occurring under Obama and Bush. What Trump is doing is accelerating it. Cutting the budget in Education and public schools, increase spending for vouchers (charter schools, Christian schools). This is taking money out of the schools that need it most and using it for private schools.



Thats a lot of wishful thinking since the research suggests otherwise so far. There are 25 voucher programs operating in 14 states and the District of Columbia — serving nearly 180,000 students, according to EdChoice, a school choice advocacy organization based in Indianapolis. "In just the last year or so, we've had a couple of studies with negative findings". -Michael Petrilli, president of the Thomas B. Fordham Institute. I posted two sources in previous posts already, ignored of course.

That isn't the only concern of course. "To many, DeVos' nomination is a troubling sign that the administration of Trump is prepared to dismantle public schools by taking money away from them and leaving them crippled, while benefiting private schools that don't have to follow the same rules public schools do. In Michigan, for instance, private schools aren't required to administer state exams, though some do. And they don't have to file financial audits with the state."

"Charter school advocates say their students outperform their demographic peers in traditional public schools. A Free Press review of 2016 academic data — based on the Michigan Student Test of Educational Progress — showed that when poverty is taken into account, there was no statistically significant difference when charter performance was compared with traditional public schools on the English language arts portion of the exam. Students in traditional schools performed better in math."

"MIXED RESULTS
In a study of research on vouchers — released in December 2015 by the National Bureau of Economic Research, a nonpartisan research organization based in Cambridge, Mass. — the authors concluded that the effects of vouchers "have been neither the rousing success imagined by proponents nor the abject failure predicted by opponents."
http://www.freep.com/story/news/educ...tion/96199598/

So we've seen research where it's been poor results and another with "mixed" results. Hardly the data that shows this going to help poor communities in large. Hardly the data that shows more charter schools Christian schools are the answer (how come you didn't comment on Finland and their success or other countries in the world that don't have private or charter schools?).



Really man? You said she's successful and rich, therefore it's better than having a lifer politician. I broke down, in detail, where her riches come from (family), what she's done in business (nothing), her life involved in politics (which shot down your claim she's not a politician and just a super successful busines woman) and her contributions to right wing religious groups and hate groups.

This is why it's difficult talking to you. You twist almost everything, dispute factual information, and either flat out forget what we were talking about or purposely change the subject. Here is a perfect example of that - you are making the claim that I simply point to her being rich and private sector when on reality I was disputing the claims YOU made. It's outrageous behavior on your part and frankly I thought Mich better of you to resort to these kinds of tactics. You won't even address 1/2 of my content in my posts, simply ignore it.





You're doing the exact same thing here again. You're accusing me of thinking that "someone of a different background than the status quo is a bad." Really? After all my posts you have the nerve to say I only dislike her because she has a different background of the status quo? Amazing.

You already did this before too, recently, just worded differently. In this post:
https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/s...postcount=3027

You said, "Why are you so opposed to putting people with records of success in positions where we need solutions?"

It's a real cute way of trying to spin something. I provide details and explanations, and you respond with a line like that (why do you hate success, bro?). Like imagine, you disagree with me on something and I could say, "why do you oppose intelligence? Why are you so afraid of smart people?" Pretty lame right? Well that's what you're doing.

And I responded to it anyway. Which of course you didn't reply to. But you should now that I'm calling you out on it.

You said, "She's had a lifetime of success. And success outside of being a lifer politician." And I provided a lot of information that you simply ignored. Here it is;

Success in what? Being born rich and marrying into an even richer family? (DeVos family is listed by Forbes as one of the richest families in America, with an estimated net worth of $5.4 billion) source

Funnelling millions of dollars into anti Gay and anti-LGBT causes? DeVos, from 2001 to 2013, was vice president of the Edgar and Elsa Prince Foundation, a "nonprofit group" founded by her mother that has been a generous donor to controversial and hate groups like Focus on the Family and Family Research Council.

A Portrait of Christian Hate: Prop 8's Elsa Prince of Michigan
http://m.dailykos.com/story/2008/12/1/667005/-
It's Executive Committee has included Oliver North, Gary Bauer, Pat Robertson, Richard DeVos, Tim LaHaye, and Richard Shoff, a former Ku Klux Klan leader in Indiana.

Follow the money:
https://mediamousearchive.wordpress....ce-foundation/

Refreshing though isn't it? Not a career politician just a plain old rich person which is so much better! Plus she's been involved in politics for years. She was chairwoman of the Michigan Republican Party throughout the 90s onto the 2000s and prior to that, "Since 1982, DeVos has participated in the Michigan Republican Party. She served as a local precinct delegate for the Michigan Republican Party, having been elected for 16 consecutive two-year terms since 1986.[38] She was a Republican National Committeewoman for Michigan between 1992 and 1997,[39] and served as chairwoman of the Michigan Republican Party from 1996 to 2000.[40][41]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betsy_DeVos

She's not a politician though.

I really want to keep having a discussion because I believe there's been a lot of good information provided in this thread that people get to soak up. What I don't want to do is engage in games and tactics that you've been doing. I came in here with the intention of learning why and how any intelligent people can still support Trump, given his first 100 days and already turning his back on things he said (hey there NAFTA!). Early on I accused you of blind support when it comes to DeVos but I told you to prove me wrong and all you've done is further support the original claim. It boils down to "faith" you have in Trump, not anything based on substance and reason and that's been proven with DaVos in that you support her because she's "rich and successful" and "has a different background". Those aren't legit reasons for anything.

We are all too familiar with 1bad65's MO. I remember my back and forth with him. I was trying my best to showing that his claim that the NYT contradicted itself was rubbish. Out of nowhere he went and created and separate thread to say I was harassing him. All because he didn't see that his claim was wrong. In the end I got him to see that his claim was wrong. He didn't apologize for his side antics while we were debating.

[siablo14]

How are his supporters defending his flip flopping on NAFTA? He was to announce Saturday, on the 100th day of his presidency, that he was withdrawing from NAFTA. The same NAFTA during his campaign he called “a total disaster” and “one of the worst deals ever.”

Trump said, “I was all set to terminate,” Trump said in an Oval Office interview Thursday night. “I looked forward to terminating. I was going to do it.” He supposedly gets calls from Mexico and Canada urging him not to and that's it? That's all it took? Amazing.

You know, that was probably the one thing I really wanted Trump to do. I've been opposed of NAFTA since it was implemented by Clinton and I believe it's had terrible consequences. One reason I thought Trump would actually do it is because of his hard stance on immigration- before Clinton implemented NAFTA, there were only about 3 million illegal Mexicans in America. Illegal immigration then EXPLODED as a result of NAFTA and how much it hurt farming in Mexico, among other things, so many of them could no longer make a living and were forced to come here for work and a way to support themselves.

It's just another thing in an increasingly long list of things Trump is going back on.

How about Trump declaring NATO “no longer obsolete,” after months of saying it was?

Then of course Syria.

MAGA though! Its all good. Trickle down economics will eventually kick in, right guys?!

If you have a detailed link on this. Please post that link. I want to read up on it.

[AllBoxingAD]

See, it's the parent's money in the first place.

You can't escape that fact.

As it is now, the government takes that money and tells parents where their child MUST go to school, unless the parents have the wealth to make a different choice.

Vouchers allow ALL parents to decide where their kids, and their tax dollars, go. They give the parents their tax money as a 'voucher', then allow the parents to CHOOSE where that money goes.

What's wrong with allowing all parents to choose their kids' schools?

Completely wrong.

Since when are all taxpayers also parents? In what world?

[AllBoxingAD]

I said you "seem to be" attacking them.

This is you clarifying you are not, correct?

And I'm still waiting for you to share your pro-choice plan...

I clearly havent attacked anyone. Theres nothing to clarify.

You are jumping the gun.

Also, I do not have a plan, Im discussing issues. There is no perfect program that Ive seen. I know parents in Florida who were lucky enough to get the vouchers and they say its changed their kids lives. Here is the problem for them though, vouchers dont pay for everything, the school books, activities, uniforms, trips, mandatory "donations"... Still makes it barely affordable for them. Still, they would never ever go back. Charter shcools can be great too... for the kids who can get in. They pick the best students so what can we expect? I wish there was alot more of them. Creates opportunities for more kids/parents. But we still end up with the same question, what about the kids who are left in regular public schools?

[mathed]

So, here we are not 100 days yet after Barry left the White House and he's already lining his pockets like a greedy Republican with the money from the "FAT CATS" on Wall Street. Man, how many people got duped? How many people will wake up and realize the Dems just sell out their voters and just lie to their faces? These cats are all making big money while trying to convince you to give all of your hard-earned bucks to them so they can "take care" of you. Yeah, they are going to take care of you as in make you poor as schit and totally reliant on them.......after they take your guns so you can't fight back.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2017/04/24/obama-wall-streets-newest-fat-cat-with-cantor-speech.html


And yes, he's landed a second big money speech gig also worth another 400K with the A&E network.

http://truthfeed.com/breaking-obama-pulls-in-an-additional-400k-for-second-private-speech/68819/

How much of this money is he donating to refugees or the homeless? I mean someone who wants you to support Communist ideologies must also support the same ideals right? It would be an insult for him to not donate the majority of his wealth to the poor as he wanted all of you to do.

[Santa_]

Trump's a details oriented person

[Santa_]

On the presidency

“I loved my previous life. I had so many things going. This is more work than in my previous life. I thought it would be easier. You’re really into your own little cocoon, because you have such massive protection that you really can’t go anywhere. I like to drive. I can’t drive any more.”

On Kim Jong-un

“He’s 27 years old, his father dies, took over a regime, so say what you want but that’s not easy, especially at that age. You know you have plenty of generals in there and plenty of other people that would like to do what he’s doing. So I’ve said this before and I’ve, I’m just telling you, and I’m not giving him credit or not giving him credit. I’m just saying that’s a very hard thing to do. As to whether or not he’s rational, I have no opinion on it. I hope he’s rational.”

On Chinese president Xi and North Korea

“He certainly doesn’t want to see turmoil and death. He doesn’t want to see it. He’s a good man. He’s a very good man and I got to know him very well ... We’ll see how it all works out. I know he would like to be able to do something. Perhaps it’s possible that he can’t. But I think he’d like to be able to do something.”

On North Korea

“There’s a chance that we could end up having a major, major, conflict with North Korea, absolutely.”

Q: Is that your biggest global worry at this point?

“Yes, I would say that’s true, yes ... North Korea would be certainly that.”

On South Korea and Thaad

“On the Thaad system, it’s about a billion dollars. I said, ‘Why are we paying? Why are we paying a billion dollars? We’re protecting. Why are we paying a billion dollars?’ So I informed South Korea it would be appropriate if they paid. Nobody’s going to do that. Why are we paying a billion dollars? It’s a billion-dollar system. It’s phenomenal. It’s the most incredible equipment you’ve ever seen – shoots missiles right out of the sky. And it protects them and I want to protect them. We’re going to protect them. But they should pay for that, and they understand that.”

On the end of Islamist terrorism

“We can’t let them come over here. I have to say, there is an end. And it has to be humiliation. There is an end. Otherwise it’s really tough. But there is an end. We are really eradicating some very bad people. When you take a look at what’s going on with the cutting off of the heads. We haven’t seen that since medieval times. Right?”

On Nafta

“You know I was really ready and psyched to terminate Nafta. You saw that, you wrote about it. And I said I’ve had it. I’ve had it ... I’m not looking to hurt Canada and I’m not looking to hurt Mexico. They’re two countries I really like. So they asked to renegotiate, and I said yes.

On speaking to Taiwan’s leader again

“Well, my problem is that I’ve established a very good personal relationship with Xi. And I really feel that he is doing everything in his power to help us with a big situation, so I wouldn’t want to be causing difficulty right now for him ... So I would certainly want to speak to him first.”

On a possible government shutdown

“If there’s closure, there’s closure. We’ll see what happens. If there’s a shutdown it’s the Democrats’ fault. Not our fault. It’s the Democrats’ fault. Maybe they’d like to see a shutdown.”

On Middle East peace and possible trip to Isreal, Saudi Ababia

“I want to see peace with Israel and the Palestinians. There is no reason there's not peace between Israel and the Palestinians - none whatsoever. So we're looking at that and we're also looking at the potential of going to Saudi Arabia.”