Most Impressive Performances By Green Fighters

[BennyST]

In all seriousness, Davey Moore's fight against Ayub Kalule, whose only loss was that great fight against Leonard. Incredibly, Moore was only 10-0 fighting the 40-1 former champ Kalule who was still fighting near his peak and would go on to fight many more years, but never regain the title unfortunately.

That probably had as much to do with him having to get past Mike McCallum, Sumbu Kalambay, and Herol Graham to get another shot, all of which he lost, along with the Moore fight.

It was this fight, from memory, that led Moore's team to believe that he could compete with Duran, seen as shot at this stage anyway, as well as very small at 154. He had gone ten rounds and stopped Kalule in the 10th which gave them the confidence that he could beat the smaller Duran and stay the distance keeping his power against a world class fighter.

[Miburo]

29 years old, 6 years as a pro, over 30 fights, former bantam champion and future SBW champ not long after. If that's not prime then nothing is. Losing to 'Happy' Lora, who many had as one of those under the radar top P4P guys says nothing. Lora was a beast and would have beaten Zaragoza at any point in their careers I'd venture. Lora was one of my favourite fighters. Good power, active and was brilliant defensively. Real underrated, forgotten fighter.

He won the bantamweight title on a DQ and lost it the fight immediately after to Lora, which was also the fight right before Fenech. So yes, I would say he was not yet in his prime as he was not an established world champion until two years after facing Fenech.

[BennyST]

He won the bantamweight title on a DQ and lost it the fight immediately after to Lora, which was also the fight right before Fenech. So yes, I would say he was not yet in his prime as he was not an established world champion until two years after facing Fenech.

29 years old, 6 years as a pro with over 30 fights. No matter which way you spin it, that is a prime fighter.

Thats like arguing that Duran was not in his prime when he lost to DeJesus or Wlad not in his prime when he lost to Brewer or Sanders or Marquez not in his prime when he got beaten by Chris John or Freddie Norwood. Of course they were. They might not have hit their greatest performances but they were certainly in their prime. Having followed Zaragoza, and having his fight with Fenech and seen his fight his with Lora I can definitively say he fought as well against those two, if not better, than he ever did later and was certainly fighting better than when he lost to guys like Banke.

Those back to back losses, were 1: against two of the very best fighters, in their primes, he ever faced and would have lost to them at any point, and 2: those two losses were right in the middle of his longest unbeaten streak and after Fenech he had his longest unbeaten streak. From '83 to '90 his only losses were those two.

Anyway, doesn't really matter. Clearly we have different definitions of a prime fighter. Going by your definition, a fighters prime might only be one or two years or maybe even one or two fights. When was Zaragoza's? The brief two year reign before getting stopped by Banke? The brief one year reign after that before losing to Jacob, then stopped by Patterson a year after that too? Or was it when he was 40 year old, just before losing to Morales? Or did he suddenly hit his prime in his 7th year of boxing, right after fighting Fenech, then lose it after a few years when he subsequently lost to Banke?

Of course he was in his prime. Nearly 30 years old with over 6 years of pro experience and more than 30 fights. How can that possibly not be a fighters prime? A green fighter is not a 6 year veteran, former world title holder (yes, with a DQ win due to opponent frustration and starting to lose) with over 30 fights at 29 years old no matter how you swing it.

Their fight was a brilliant performance by both guys, and its one of Zaragoza's better performances, even in losing. Great fight in fact.

But, if you still think he was green, well, it doesn't stop the fact that the performance by Fenech, in his 12th fight, compared to 32nd for Zaragoza, after 18 months, compared to 6 years for Zaragoza, at just 22 years old compared to 29 for Zaragoza, is a great performance by a fighter really just hitting his prime, though still 'green'. That's prime Fenech, even if he was still a little green, stupidly green compared to what was described as a veteran in Zaragoza during their fight.

[talip bin osman]

what about jorge arce's performance against michael carbajal?

the guy was on his way to a smashing victory up until carbajal saw an opening to slide in his right hook?

yeah, it was a loss but still...

[BennyST]

what about jorge arce's performance against michael carbajal?

the guy was on his way to a smashing victory up until carbajal saw an opening to slide in his right hook?

yeah, it was a loss but still...

Man, I remember that really well. I felt so bad for him. He was shattered, and having fought such a great fight up to that point. Awful loss for him.

[jabsRstiff]

Man, I remember that really well. I felt so bad for him. He was shattered, and having fought such a great fight up to that point. Awful loss for him.

When people list the greatest punchers of all time they seem to forget about Carbajal. He ended or turned around many fights with one punch.

Damn fine performance by a "green" fighter = Fernando Vargas stopping Yori Boy Campas.

[bojangles1987]

Holyfield vs Qawi

First fight I thought about. Amazing fight too.

[IMDAZED]

That was an impressive performance. Ever consider if the fight was scheduled for twelve rounds Azumah would have scored a massive upset!

Most of the other fights mentioned involved fighters with extensive amateur backgrounds(Fenech, Tszyu etc) Neon Leon had amateur experiance as well and Ali was well past his best days but considering Spinks was held to a draw by Scott Ledoux not long before his title challenge, that is a good suggestion because he was fighting Ali for the undisputed heavyweight title.

Agreed - amazing that he was able to hang tough against an all-time great in a 15-rounder! Well, he didn't last the whole 15 but it's a miracle he didn't gas after eight.

[Miburo]

29 years old, 6 years as a pro with over 30 fights. No matter which way you spin it, that is a prime fighter.

Thats like arguing that Duran was not in his prime when he lost to DeJesus or Wlad not in his prime when he lost to Brewer or Sanders or Marquez not in his prime when he got beaten by Chris John or Freddie Norwood. Of course they were. They might not have hit their greatest performances but they were certainly in their prime. Having followed Zaragoza, and having his fight with Fenech and seen his fight his with Lora I can definitively say he fought as well against those two, if not better, than he ever did later and was certainly fighting better than when he lost to guys like Banke.

Those back to back losses, were 1: against two of the very best fighters, in their primes, he ever faced and would have lost to them at any point, and 2: those two losses were right in the middle of his longest unbeaten streak and after Fenech he had his longest unbeaten streak. From '83 to '90 his only losses were those two.

Anyway, doesn't really matter. Clearly we have different definitions of a prime fighter. Going by your definition, a fighters prime might only be one or two years or maybe even one or two fights. When was Zaragoza's? The brief two year reign before getting stopped by Banke? The brief one year reign after that before losing to Jacob, then stopped by Patterson a year after that too? Or was it when he was 40 year old, just before losing to Morales? Or did he suddenly hit his prime in his 7th year of boxing, right after fighting Fenech, then lose it after a few years when he subsequently lost to Banke?

Of course he was in his prime. Nearly 30 years old with over 6 years of pro experience and more than 30 fights. How can that possibly not be a fighters prime? A green fighter is not a 6 year veteran, former world title holder (yes, with a DQ win due to opponent frustration and starting to lose) with over 30 fights at 29 years old no matter how you swing it.

Their fight was a brilliant performance by both guys, and its one of Zaragoza's better performances, even in losing. Great fight in fact.

But, if you still think he was green, well, it doesn't stop the fact that the performance by Fenech, in his 12th fight, compared to 32nd for Zaragoza, after 18 months, compared to 6 years for Zaragoza, at just 22 years old compared to 29 for Zaragoza, is a great performance by a fighter really just hitting his prime, though still 'green'. That's prime Fenech, even if he was still a little green, stupidly green compared to what was described as a veteran in Zaragoza during their fight.

Experience is every bit as important as age and physical condition. How can you argue Zaragoza had the necessary experience on the world class level at that point? He had fought mostly nothing opposition, 30 fights or no. So no, he was not in his prime at that time, was not yet truly on the world championship level. The potential was obviously there, but he had yet to put it all together, and coming off that loss probably lacking confidence as to whether or not he belonged. Not taking anything away from Fenech, obviously an impressive feat, but Zaragoza was not yet established.

[Miburo]

what about jorge arce's performance against michael carbajal?

the guy was on his way to a smashing victory up until carbajal saw an opening to slide in his right hook?

yeah, it was a loss but still...

Carbajal was way past prime though. One of if not the greatest fight to end a career.