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Old 02-20-2019, 10:43 PM #31
Rusty Tromboni Rusty Tromboni is offline
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Originally Posted by billeau2 View Post
Thats an interesting proposition... Actually Louis, who might to some be the best heavy there ever was, is a really good style for Jones. there is a time for Louis when he became a stalker in the ring and got good enough to win that way because of his incredible punching. BUT contrary to popular opinions there is tape of Louis, sort of before his main prime, but still in his great years, that show he had fast feet. I always kick myself for not bookmarking that information.

In a 12 round fight I think Roy has an opportunity. Roy was just superhuman fast enough to avoid traps...was Louis skilled enough to cut the ring on Roy? In a 15 round fight I see a Conn job...that is Billy Conn lol. Roy looks good and gets caught and thats all she wrote. Roy's problem would always be the need to avoid getting hit. And it is true that his chances to use his evasive skills are better for him against the premier punching heavy weight, than guys who had enough speed to catch up to Roy and make it a fight...guys like Ezzard Charles....and guys who were just wrecking balls that threw lots of punches and walked through opponents, like Marciano.

Two Ton Toney...Underrated fighter. Very smart, cagey and able. Another guy who looked a certain way but threw lots of punches, applied pressure and was dangerous to any guy who he could get his barrel chested body on. People sometimes gloat that Louis went down in that fight once...Truth is if TT caught any fighter right they could go down and he had good feet...Had to because of his reach.
great insights.

I can believe Louis was more mobile. In his era he had to span the breadth between fast Light Heavyweights a la Conn, and monstrosities like Carnera. He needed to be mobile enough to catch fast guys and out-pace ponderous giants, while being big enough to inflict his power and not get muscled around. Roy might have been able to exploit that, but a "fast" Louis might put him away quickly.
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Old 02-23-2019, 03:59 AM #32
robertzimmerman robertzimmerman is offline
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Originally Posted by GhostofDempsey View Post
At middleweight he would have lost against Robinson and likely Hagler. Struggled with Basilio, Griffith, Hearns, and LaMotta.

At 168 which was his best weight IMO, I can't see anyone beating him in his prime. Possibly Robinson if he fought at 168.

At 175 I'd say Conn, Charles, Moore, Foster, and Spinks would be the guys who could beat him. Maybe Braxton/Qawi. There was a lot of talk about him fighting Dariusz Michalczewski, and I think that may have been a 50/50 fight.

Somewhere between LHW and CW I see Michael Moorer giving him all he can handle. Might even favor Moorer in that one.

At CW I'd say Holyfield. He would have his hands full with Jirov, but edge him out.

At HW there are just too many to list. His win over Ruiz was an anomaly. He would not have the power or the chin to compete with the ATG HWs.
On a P4P basis, Robbo definitely ranks higher in my opinion. But in a H2H fight at MW, I'd have had to have favoured Roy. Ray was a genius in the ring. But his prime was when he was at WW.

People seem to forget that Roy fought Thomas Tate at MW when he was 25, which was the same year that he fought James Toney. Roy wasn't green at MW. He just didn't have the names on his resume at that point due to circumstances.

The 25 year old version of Roy from 1994 could have beaten any MW in history. He was in his prime, weighing around 170 pounds on fight night.

Basillio and LaMotta were great fighters. But what makes you think that Roy would have struggled with them?

Basillio was a 5'7 former WW, who often weighed in below JMW for his MW bouts, back in the days of same day weigh-ins.

LaMotta was 5'8, with a 67" reach, who was a come forward fighter who marked up due to his style and the number of fights that he'd had.

Although they were greats of the past, you've got to ask yourself how they would they have coped with Roy's size, speed and style.

Regarding Dariusz M, what did he do to make you think that a fight against Roy would have been a toss up?

Last edited by robertzimmerman; 02-23-2019 at 05:15 AM.
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Old 02-23-2019, 04:04 AM #33
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Originally Posted by DuckAdonis View Post
Antonio Tarver?
He couldn't have beaten a guy who he actually beat?
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Old 02-23-2019, 04:05 AM #34
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Originally Posted by GhostofDempsey View Post
He left the HW division after that win. He was looking at Lewis, Tyson, Wlad, Holyfield...no way he stood a chance against them. Looking back at the HW division, I can't see him beating Dempsey, Tunney, Louis, Charles, Walcott, Marciano, Patterson, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Shavers, Holmes, etc. He would suffer the same fate as Bob Foster every time he tried to step up to HW and Foster was a bigger hitter.
I'd have given him a good chance to have beaten Evander in 2003.
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Old 02-23-2019, 04:08 AM #35
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Originally Posted by GhostofDempsey View Post
Good point. Never got to see him in with McClellan, Julian Jackson, Nigel Benn, Eubank, prime Calzaghe, Michalczewski, or Collins.
Very true. But 3 of those guys didn't want to face him.
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Old 02-23-2019, 04:10 AM #36
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Originally Posted by BattlingNelson View Post
... and Nunn, Littles, Liles, Michalszewski etc.
My old friend Bat.

How's it going?

We can't do this dance again.

We've done it too many times now. But you know that Liles and Dariusz didn't want to fight Roy, and you know that Toney had knocked out Littles before he fought Roy.
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Old 02-23-2019, 04:15 AM #37
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Originally Posted by SheenLantern View Post
More detail: Here is everyone that held a significant belt between 1990 and now that I think Roy would beat:

Michael Bentt
Herbie Hide
Bruce Seldon
Oliver McCall
Chris Byrd
John Ruiz
Clifford Etienne
Hasim Rahman
Lamon Brewster
Nikolai Valuev
Siarhei Liakhovich
Oleg Maskayev
Sultan Ibragimov
Ruslan Chagaev
Samuel Peter
David Haye
Chris Arreola
Bermane Stiverne
Good list.

Hide, Haye, Byrd and McCall are the standouts.

Very tough matches.

Also, Peter and Rahman if they'd have had no respect for him.
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Old 02-23-2019, 04:16 AM #38
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Originally Posted by W1LL View Post
Damn, just imagine Roy vs. Hagler... I imagine Roy would have done a serious number on Hagler and made him look ordinary. I couldn't split a prime Roy and a prime Joe Calzaghe. Both ATGs, Roy probably ranking higher out of the two. I also think Roy done the right thing not going after Lennox Lewis at Heavyweight.
A prime SMW version of Roy was on another level to Joe.
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Old 02-23-2019, 04:19 AM #39
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Originally Posted by billeau2 View Post
Roy does not beat heavyweights... He gets walked down and put to sleep like he did against pressure guys when he lost a step.
He wouldn't beat ATG HW's, but definitely some of the lower tier guys.
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Old 02-23-2019, 04:20 AM #40
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Originally Posted by robertzimmerman View Post
A prime SMW version of Roy was on another level to Joe.
No way of ever knowing. I think a prime, on-form Calzaghe was close to untouchable.
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