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Old 02-05-2019, 01:17 PM #31
todisday todisday is online now
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Originally Posted by DreamerUSA View Post
Lol eliminate money. You do know that means going back to being a barter society? Good luck getting all the commodities you need when your'e a pig farmer.

How do you propose dealing with the division of labor or how to allocate resources without prices?
I don't propose a barter society. No one should have to sell their last pig in exchange for medicine for their grandmother. What I propose is a society where everyone has access to what they need, but those needs come first. They don't need a Ferrari and three homes. They need food, water, healthcare, and a place to live. If we refocus our labor on those areas, we can harvest together, provide shelter together, and treat illnesses together. This also doesn't mean that people can't have other jobs, or that technological advancement will be frowned upon. It only means that we will have people in jobs as needed; a fair distribution of labor. We could even trade roles back and forth, too, so that no one person is stuck in one job. Educate people so that they have multiple specializations. A true society. In some ways, it simplifies things with the focus on agriculture/nature and the basics of survival. However, as those basics are achieved, the rest will come.
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Old 02-05-2019, 01:36 PM #32
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Originally Posted by todisday View Post
I don't propose a barter society. No one should have to sell their last pig in exchange for medicine for their grandmother. What I propose is a society where everyone has access to what they need, but those needs come first. They don't need a Ferrari and three homes. They need food, water, healthcare, and a place to live. If we refocus our labor on those areas, we can harvest together, provide shelter together, and treat illnesses together. This also doesn't mean that people can't have other jobs, or that technological advancement will be frowned upon. It only means that we will have people in jobs as needed; a fair distribution of labor. We could even trade roles back and forth, too, so that no one person is stuck in one job. Educate people so that they have multiple specializations. A true society. In some ways, it simplifies things with the focus on agriculture/nature and the basics of survival. However, as those basics are achieved, the rest will come.
You've heard of welfare? Medicade? Medical? Childern programs? Child tax credit when you dont pay any taxes at all? Food programs for the poor? I could go on and on. You have every chance to make a change.
Its funny I grew up poor. My dad would allow my mom to collect welfare. We had lots of hard times that I still remember to this day.
It makes me who I am today.
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Old 02-05-2019, 01:37 PM #33
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I don't propose a barter society. No one should have to sell their last pig in exchange for medicine for their grandmother. What I propose is a society where everyone has access to what they need, but those needs come first. They don't need a Ferrari and three homes. They need food, water, healthcare, and a place to live. If we refocus our labor on those areas, we can harvest together, provide shelter together, and treat illnesses together. This also doesn't mean that people can't have other jobs, or that technological advancement will be frowned upon. It only means that we will have people in jobs as needed; a fair distribution of labor. We could even trade roles back and forth, too, so that no one person is stuck in one job. Educate people so that they have multiple specializations. A true society. In some ways, it simplifies things with the focus on agriculture/nature and the basics of survival. However, as those basics are achieved, the rest will come.
So a magic society. Where resources magically end up where they are needed. Labor gets where it needs to be and everyone frolics in the meadows. Care to mention how that happens since you failed to actually answer my questions. How do you propose to order an economy without a mechanism that tells you how to allocate resources in an efficient manner?

I'll skip ahead for you. Its been tried and what happens is society devolves into a barter society, starvation ensues and people dig ditches and fill them back in. And if tyranny didn't start the process, it will be along in short order.
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Old 02-05-2019, 01:40 PM #34
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As you already know Dempsey, we have a re-active vs pro-active government & when it comes to social programs we are very OVER re-active. I am not against social programs at all because we need to take care of our elderly, handi-cap, & Americans that are just going through a rough spot in life. You use the word "lazy" & although I do agree there are lazy people on welfare, how many of those are just "simple minded" people? I guarantee many of these people dont know how to prepare a resume much less fill out a W4 form. I personally blame the education system because education is key! Take sex, un-wanted pregnancy, std's, and birth control into condsideration. The poorest and least educated countries/states/counties/cites in the USA and abroad have problems in all those areas until someone educates them on the topics, then after all those risks reduce. Now back to public youth education, if schools focused more on preparing kids for the "real world" instead of a fantasy then a lot would change.
You make some good points. I'm not against providing social services on a case by case basis. People who are legitimately disabled either mentally or physically, or those who have hit hard times. But, certain forms of welfare should be temporary or preferably a supplement to someone's income who is willing to work. So lets say a single mom who made poor choices is working for minimum wage 40 hours per week. I have no issues with the state assisting her to make ends meet.

Unfortunately there is too much abuse of this system. And it isn't just poor minorities taking advantage, there are a large number of American born whites, Eastern Europeans and Chinese who abuse the system as well.
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Old 02-05-2019, 01:43 PM #35
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It's amazing to see how people are very unwilling to push back against the system. With that mentality we'd still be working 7days a week, in terrible conditions without so much as a bathroom break. Ask any billionaire and i'm sure they'd tell you now is the best time to be one especially where losses are socialized and gains are privatised. Who do you think benefited from the financial crises which was the fault of banks with fed lowering rates after to unprecedented levels? This was meant to help main street, but no this easy money went to the elite who invested in financial assests and real estates and boosted their wealth, and who do you think the increase in federal debt will affect the most?
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Old 02-05-2019, 01:48 PM #36
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Its a system designed by the corrupt rich to punish the good rich

The corrupt rich owns the democrat politicians so this rich folks gets loopholes while the good rich suffers

Competition dies
Corrupt rich wins
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Old 02-05-2019, 02:13 PM #37
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The US abandoned those tax rates because all it does in a globalized world is lead to the exodus of money. Billionaires are simply too mobile, there's nothing keeping their money in your economy.

Post-globalism, tax schemes became a competition over attracting billionaires, not squeezing them.

So yes greed caused the 35% bracket ceiling but not the kind of greed you're thinking of.
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Old 02-05-2019, 02:50 PM #38
todisday todisday is online now
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So a magic society. Where resources magically end up where they are needed. Labor gets where it needs to be and everyone frolics in the meadows. Care to mention how that happens since you failed to actually answer my questions. How do you propose to order an economy without a mechanism that tells you how to allocate resources in an efficient manner?

I'll skip ahead for you. Its been tried and what happens is society devolves into a barter society, starvation ensues and people dig ditches and fill them back in. And if tyranny didn't start the process, it will be along in short order.
Of course there would be mechanisms to ensure a functioning society. That's the whole point. Society isn't working now. Let's make it work! Nothing's by magic; I explained how it would function.
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Old 02-05-2019, 03:01 PM #39
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the wealthy will offshore their money or leave the country entirely. many business owners, farmers, etc. are also wealthy on paper but realistically make just enough to keep their businesses running. not the type of people you want to punish if you want to have an economy. basic level **** for anybody with an IQ above room temperature.
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Old 02-05-2019, 03:07 PM #40
John Barron John Barron is offline
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there are problems with how our country works sure. but more socialism isn't the solution. you people with the MUH RICH BE EVIL AND MUH POOR NEEDS MORE FREE **** rhetoric should just move to Venezuela, Cuba or wherever your big communist hearts and tiny little communist brains desires. nobody is stopping you. so stop trying to **** the country over for the rest of us with failed ideas.

Last edited by John Barron; 02-05-2019 at 04:03 PM.
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