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Old 01-24-2019, 03:04 AM #141
KillaMane26 KillaMane26 is offline
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Manny dominated? Probably watched a different fight that night. Both fighters looked ***** and Floyd barely won. Both fighters had 2 clear rounds each, and the rest were close rounds which most of them was given to Floyd because he was the champion and Vegas cashcow. Fanboys SMH
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Ok i take that back i got caught up n arguing witcho ass lol ...You right They both had their lowest punch outputs..Even by Floyd standards. But Floyd clearly won tho..

And what happened to the "controversial" Cocaine Hoya fight u brought up which Floyd clearly won also? 2nd thougts?
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Old 01-24-2019, 04:05 AM #142
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Originally Posted by KillaMane26 View Post

And what happened to the "controversial" Cocaine Hoya fight u brought up which Floyd clearly won also? 2nd thougts?
Wait is this for me? I never mentioned Hoya-Floyd as controversial, it was a competitive fight though. Floyd deserved that win against DLH.
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Old 01-24-2019, 04:10 AM #143
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there are usually several two weight champs, so i'd highly doubt he remains distinctive for what hes done over a whole decade of boxers.

Of course I understand hes not finished.
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Old 01-24-2019, 05:29 AM #144
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Originally Posted by Bjl12 View Post
There is very little chance of you actually responding the reply I've produced here. Partly because it will emotionally scar you and partly because you're an idiot. Anyhow, enjoy :-]

As usual...GGG/Pacstan are Wrong. Again. And Again. And Again.

You cite an article from BloodyElbow that uses two "scientific" articles to support their assertion that hair cannot be used to test people for Clenbuterol. They are both legitimate scientific journals, but there are huge GLARING problems with BLH and their ability to understand science.

Also, before I dive in please remember that BLH/BloodyElbow as well as WonderWhiteBreadMan Stephen E (of this website) are extremely biased especially of white fighters. This is a long-running theme on their articles and I can prove that with "evidence" in a completely different discussion.

The first article used over at white-loving BloodyElbow cites an article from Clinical Chemistry (a real, legitimate journal of chemistry) which is from 1996. There's a reason scientists use "recent findings" to further their own understanding of matters...namely technology. The equipment used to analyze anything in 1996 is likely so outdated that it's findings are irrelevant.

Here's a simple picture of a 1996 cell phone:

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Taking a picture, recording audio, and doing ANY kind of measurement with THAT phone would produce completely useless data compared to a phone you purchase at ANY store today. (This is probably beyond your understanding, but try hard)

Let's talk about this 1996 study further and I'll explain why it's not remotely reliable...
  • Don't cry:
    * Men and women of different ages...unknown if they are white/black/Hispanic/Asian/etc...metabolism differs depending on race/ethnicity

    * No weights given...at all...yet ALL MEDICINE is prescribed/dosed by weight...(you probably don't know what this means so I'll dumb it down for you)...

    Two people receive 10mg of X. Person 1 weighs 40kg and Person 2 weighs 80kg. Person 1 is likely to experience twice the concentration and Person 2...medicinally Person 1 would receive 0.5 dosage compared to Person 2 1.0 dosage. (Try hard to understand)

    * Zero discussion of technology used...method explained (very poorly), but theirs no discussion about the specific equipment and whether that equipment has produced Accurate/Valid results (accuracy and validity are different - again, this is probably all new information for you) with other substances...

    * We don't know anything about the health status of participants. If half the participant pool had major health conditions (such as kidney impairment or cardiovascular disease) their metabolism is greatly different than a "normal health individual" and would produce skewed values of any substance (Clenbuterol or other)...(again, you don't know what any of this means since you're a GGG/Pacstan)

    *The best part of all this is that the GGG nuthuggers over at BloodyElbow even acknowledge the concept of "unreliability", but fail to understand why one of their cited sources could be "unreliable"...



Now let's look at the second study which appears to be professionally conducted by contemporary standards...probably because it's from 2014. Anyhow, it's a great study albeit using a small pool of participants. Nonetheless the findings were suggestive of potential application:



That's odd. Why would you (a Canelo dick sucking faggot and GGG nut worshipper) post a link that cites an article suggesting Clenbuterol hair follicle tests are effective for detecting "typical abuse of Clenbuterol" and suggesting "real doping control samples can be evaluated" so long as the concentration is not less than 20pg/mL?

Canelo's two failed tests were deemed "indicative of contaminated meat" by WADA lab director that collected the sample were recorded at 0.6-0.8ng/ml (which is 600-800pg/ml) and two days later 0.06-0.08ng/ml (which is 60-80pg/mL) and the study that YOU posted suggested it's chromatography technology could accurately, reliably, and validly detect clenbuterol using hair follices in samples equal to or greater than 0.02pg/mL (or 20ng/mL).

There's no debate Clenbuterol existed in Canelo's system - that's indisputable. That debate exists whether it was the result of ingested meat (via Mexican cattle contamination) or if it was intentionally used for PED purposes.

Let's remember the hair follicle test only ever happened at the request of the NSAC. Canelo didn't run, whine, and cry that this test would prove his innocence. He was merely complying with NSAC requests which - again - does support his stance of being innocent since he was #1 willing to take the test and #2 tested negative. Thirdly, Canelo has never tested positive before and he's had OSDT for at least four fights in his career: Austin Trout, Floyd Mayweather, GGG1, GGG2, and there's another I can't think of atm (and those are just the ones I KNOW about...possibly more).

Canelo's performance following 2nd fight (after being caught using PED's) was better (not worse) than his performance in the 1st fight. So, now off the PED's, Canelo did better? What? Yeah, he was never on PED's.

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Spent too much time discussing this issue back when it happened, man, so I'll be brief. The second study you refer does indicate that hair follicle test may indeed prove a fruitful area of further research and may eventually lead to an effective discriminatory test... but it ain't there yet. Point being it doesn't prove any intentional usage, like the urine tests, but also like the urine tests does not help us decide whether or not the Clenbuterol in Canelo's system was there through deliberate usage or accidental contamination.

People saying Canelo deliberately used Clenbuterol as a PED have no proof of intent. Those who claim it was through accidental contamination also have no proof that this was the case. The urine samples were consistent both with eating tainted meat within a fairly small windows up to a few days before testing and with having used a therapeutic dose of Clenbueterol (or withdrawn from regular dosing) between one and 2 weeks prior - if I recall right the numbers suggest something like 10 days for an average expected dose as a PED. Insufficient research has been done to tell us exactly what the hair test tells us, although the one thing that can be said for certain is that the result does not prove guilt.

From March 2018:

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Quote:
The World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) concede that they currently have no scientific means to distinguish whether failed drug tests for clenbuterol have resulted from contaminated meat or genuine doping.
Quote:
"We are running some studies to try to distinguish but we don't have a magic solution today," Rabin told insidethegames here at the WADA Symposium.
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Old 01-24-2019, 06:12 AM #145
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im getting mixed messages im sure you told us broner would win it?
Yea Larry you can't change your mind now. You preached and preached about the greatness of Adrien Broner back in the day. Remember you calling Jason Litzau and A+ win.
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Old 01-24-2019, 07:24 AM #146
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Originally Posted by Socialtwinkie View Post
Just like those studies you "read" you did a great job of reading into the context.

I said:

Someone just recently told me that global warming is fake because if all the ice melts then, just like in a cup, the volume of water goes down.

Lmfao. That's you.


Lmfao. The context CLEARLY implies that I believe in global warming and that you're just like that idiot who told me it wasnt because of their lack of understanding of science.

Lmfao. You're such a failure. And calling me a Republican? Lmfao.

From the 2014 study

Abstract
Clenbuterol is a well-established β2-agonist, which is prohibited in sports and strictly regulated for use in the livestock industry. During the last few years clenbuterol-positive results in doping controls and in samples from residents or travellers from a high-risk country were suspected to be related the illegal use of clenbuterol for fattening. A sensitive liquid chromatography-tandem mass spectrometry (LC-MS/MS) method was developed to detect low clenbuterol residues in hair with a detection limit of 0.02 pg/mg. A sub-therapeutic application study and a field study with volunteers, who have a high risk of contamination, were performed. For the application study, a total dosage of 30 µg clenbuterol was applied to 20 healthy volunteers on 5 subsequent days. One month after the beginning of the application, clenbuterol was detected in the proximal hair segment (0-1 cm) in concentrations between 0.43 and 4.76 pg/mg.

For the second part, samples of 66 Mexican soccer players were analyzed. In 89% of these volunteers, clenbuterol was detectable in their hair at concentrations between 0.02 and 1.90 pg/mg.

A comparison of both parts showed no statistical difference between sub-therapeutic application and contamination. In contrast, discrimination to a typical abuse of clenbuterol is apparently possible. Due to these findings results of real doping control samples can be evaluated.

All this study proves is that they can test for levels of Clenbuterol. What they cannot do however is determine if it was intentional or not. Lmfao.

You cant even read but you want to science?

No way in anyway shape or form does this test CLEAR Canelo. The best this test can do is say that its PLAUSIBLE he could have eaten contaminated meat. It's also plausible he was cheating and cycling off.


But let me ask you, lmfao, where did Canelo supposedly eat this meat? Where was it purchased? Does he have receipts? You love Canelo so much you should know.

And if the meat problem is so BAD in Mexico, you would think that he would avoid that meat huh? Lmfao. Its FAR more likely that after being gifted a draw against GGG in a fight nearly everyone thought he lost he decided he needed an edge.

For a guy you Canelo fans claim isnt a true MW and is a natural 154 guy to balloon all the way up to 168 in the matter of 2 years is pretty ridiculous. And this is the guy who wanted a catch weight with GGG! But right after fighting him he decides he can fight at 168? Lmfao.

You're the same people who claim Pac was roiding becaus he moved up through so many weight classes so fast! Lmfao. Too funny.
So you're agreeing with me...days later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjl12 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrap View Post
They weren't within the expected levels or else he wouldn't have been suspended for 6 months.
Wrong. As I originally stated - GGG/Pacstans can't have a rational discussion about ANYTHING.
  • *“These values are all within the range of what is expected from meat contamination,” Daniel Eichner, director of SMRTL, the World Anti-Doping Agency that conducted the test announced in a letter."

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Canelo wasn't suspended for the Clenbuterol levels. He was supposed because there was no way to prove whether it was only meat contamination or if it was intentional.

That is why the NSAC requested Canelo submit to a hair follicle test specifically for Clenbuterol.
  • *Canelo Alvarez submitted to hair follicle testing at the request of the Nevada State Athletic Commission and the test came back negative for the banned performance-enhancing drug clenbuterol, lending some credence to Alvarez's insistence that his two positive drug tests for the substance in February, which caused his rematch with unified middleweight world champion Gennady Golovkin to be canceled, were caused by eating contaminated beef.

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Canelo cooperated, took the additional testing, came up clean. Couple that with the fact Canelo had random drug testing to for GGG 1, GGG 2, Floyd, Trout, and at least one other fight (can't remember which) - all came up clean.

What was UNIQUE to Canelo's urine tests was them occurring in Mexico which had never happened before. And Mexico is notorious for using Clenbuterol in their meat...several boxers, NFL players, weightlifters, and even a kids soccer tournament produced PED levels for Clenbuterol just by...eating in Mexico.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrap View Post
It's also a genuine question. Whatever your thoughts are on the situation it doesn't change the fact that on his record he was suspended for 6 months for testing positive for a PED. Can he still be considered?
Not only can Canelo be considered he will be anointed:

Mr. Middleweight Ca$hnelo aka Mr. Pound-for-Pound Ca$hnelo
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Old 01-24-2019, 07:30 AM #147
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Originally Posted by Koba-Grozny View Post
Spent too much time discussing this issue back when it happened, man, so I'll be brief. The second study you refer does indicate that hair follicle test may indeed prove a fruitful area of further research and may eventually lead to an effective discriminatory test... but it ain't there yet. Point being it doesn't prove any intentional usage, like the urine tests, but also like the urine tests does not help us decide whether or not the Clenbuterol in Canelo's system was there through deliberate usage or accidental contamination.

People saying Canelo deliberately used Clenbuterol as a PED have no proof of intent. Those who claim it was through accidental contamination also have no proof that this was the case. The urine samples were consistent both with eating tainted meat within a fairly small windows up to a few days before testing and with having used a therapeutic dose of Clenbueterol (or withdrawn from regular dosing) between one and 2 weeks prior - if I recall right the numbers suggest something like 10 days for an average expected dose as a PED. Insufficient research has been done to tell us exactly what the hair test tells us, although the one thing that can be said for certain is that the result does not prove guilt.

From March 2018:

[Link View Has Been Removed. Click Here To Unlock This Content.]
You are correct.

The only thing we know for sure is that Canelo had clenbuterol in his system. We do not know of it was accidental or intentional consumption.

Canelo did not take the hair follicle test to disprove guilt; he took it at request of NSAC.

Canelo has never failed a test before or after those test dates.

Those tests mark the first time Canelo tested positive for any PED or specifically clenbuterol.

Canelo performed as well or better in the rematch against Triple Borat despite having a year layoff, coming off knee surgery, dealing with baseless PED accusations, and continuing OSDT via WBC365.

WADA director of lab that collected positive samples proclaim Canelos result consistent with meat contamination.

Mexico has known problem with specifically clenbuterol in their cattle/meat.

All signs suggest Canelo is indeed innocent.

No definitive proof, but circumstantial evidence which strongly advocates for meat contamination.
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Old 01-24-2019, 07:36 AM #148
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This year should seal it for him if he takes care of business
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Old 01-24-2019, 07:49 AM #149
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Andre ward deserves it over canelo no doubt
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Old 01-24-2019, 07:58 AM #150
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Originally Posted by Bjl12 View Post
You are correct.

The only thing we know for sure is that Canelo had clenbuterol in his system. We do not know of it was accidental or intentional consumption.

Canelo did not take the hair follicle test to disprove guilt; he took it at request of NSAC.

Canelo has never failed a test before or after those test dates.

Those tests mark the first time Canelo tested positive for any PED or specifically clenbuterol.

Canelo performed as well or better in the rematch against Triple Borat despite having a year layoff, coming off knee surgery, dealing with baseless PED accusations, and continuing OSDT via WBC365.

WADA director of lab that collected positive samples proclaim Canelos result consistent with meat contamination.

Mexico has known problem with specifically clenbuterol in their cattle/meat.

All signs suggest Canelo is indeed innocent.

No definitive proof, but circumstantial evidence which strongly advocates for meat contamination.
I'm happy with the concept of uncertainty... in this case I genuinely don't know whether Canelo used Clen deliberately or not. It's not hard to devise a counter to each of the points you raise in his support, but it also brings us no closer to a definitive answer, so I ain't gonna bother.

Long as folk retain a consistent stance on other (and future) test failures for other fighters guess they're entitled to hold whatever opinion they like.
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