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Old 01-22-2019, 10:33 PM #91
Deontay Wilder Deontay Wilder is offline
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Floyd would have wins over two FOTD.

This puts him in the lead as a candidate for FOTC.
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Old 01-22-2019, 10:48 PM #92
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I wouldn't complain.
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Old 01-22-2019, 11:08 PM #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrap View Post
They weren't within the expected levels or else he wouldn't have been suspended for 6 months.
Wrong. As I originally stated - GGG/Pacstans can't have a rational discussion about ANYTHING.
  • *“These values are all within the range of what is expected from meat contamination,” Daniel Eichner, director of SMRTL, the World Anti-Doping Agency that conducted the test announced in a letter."

[Link View Has Been Removed. Click Here To Unlock This Content.]

Canelo wasn't suspended for the Clenbuterol levels. He was supposed because there was no way to prove whether it was only meat contamination or if it was intentional.

That is why the NSAC requested Canelo submit to a hair follicle test specifically for Clenbuterol.
  • *Canelo Alvarez submitted to hair follicle testing at the request of the Nevada State Athletic Commission and the test came back negative for the banned performance-enhancing drug clenbuterol, lending some credence to Alvarez's insistence that his two positive drug tests for the substance in February, which caused his rematch with unified middleweight world champion Gennady Golovkin to be canceled, were caused by eating contaminated beef.

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Canelo cooperated, took the additional testing, came up clean. Couple that with the fact Canelo had random drug testing to for GGG 1, GGG 2, Floyd, Trout, and at least one other fight (can't remember which) - all came up clean.

What was UNIQUE to Canelo's urine tests was them occurring in Mexico which had never happened before. And Mexico is notorious for using Clenbuterol in their meat...several boxers, NFL players, weightlifters, and even a kids soccer tournament produced PED levels for Clenbuterol just by...eating in Mexico.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrap View Post
It's also a genuine question. Whatever your thoughts are on the situation it doesn't change the fact that on his record he was suspended for 6 months for testing positive for a PED. Can he still be considered?
Not only can Canelo be considered he will be anointed:

Mr. Middleweight Ca$hnelo aka Mr. Pound-for-Pound Ca$hnelo
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Old 01-22-2019, 11:37 PM #94
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PED usage and suspension will prevent this. Mayweather is most likely the winner of this award.
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Old 01-22-2019, 11:55 PM #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjl12 View Post
Wrong. As I originally stated - GGG/Pacstans can't have a rational discussion about ANYTHING.
  • *“These values are all within the range of what is expected from meat contamination,” Daniel Eichner, director of SMRTL, the World Anti-Doping Agency that conducted the test announced in a letter."

[Link View Has Been Removed. Click Here To Unlock This Content.]

Canelo wasn't suspended for the Clenbuterol levels. He was supposed because there was no way to prove whether it was only meat contamination or if it was intentional.

That is why the NSAC requested Canelo submit to a hair follicle test specifically for Clenbuterol.
  • *Canelo Alvarez submitted to hair follicle testing at the request of the Nevada State Athletic Commission and the test came back negative for the banned performance-enhancing drug clenbuterol, lending some credence to Alvarez's insistence that his two positive drug tests for the substance in February, which caused his rematch with unified middleweight world champion Gennady Golovkin to be canceled, were caused by eating contaminated beef.

[Link View Has Been Removed. Click Here To Unlock This Content.]

Canelo cooperated, took the additional testing, came up clean. Couple that with the fact Canelo had random drug testing to for GGG 1, GGG 2, Floyd, Trout, and at least one other fight (can't remember which) - all came up clean.

What was UNIQUE to Canelo's urine tests was them occurring in Mexico which had never happened before. And Mexico is notorious for using Clenbuterol in their meat...several boxers, NFL players, weightlifters, and even a kids soccer tournament produced PED levels for Clenbuterol just by...eating in Mexico.



Not only can Canelo be considered he will be anointed:

Mr. Middleweight Ca$hnelo aka Mr. Pound-for-Pound Ca$hnelo
I'm not going to bother arguing, as that's derailing my point. No matter what you think of the situation - that black mark is on his record forever.

However you feel about it won't change the fact that it's there. It will have an impact. I just don't know whether that impact is disqualification or just a big asterisk.
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Old 01-23-2019, 12:11 AM #96
Socialtwinkie Socialtwinkie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjl12 View Post
Wrong. As I originally stated - GGG/Pacstans can't have a rational discussion about ANYTHING.
  • *“These values are all within the range of what is expected from meat contamination,” Daniel Eichner, director of SMRTL, the World Anti-Doping Agency that conducted the test announced in a letter."

[Link View Has Been Removed. Click Here To Unlock This Content.]

Canelo wasn't suspended for the Clenbuterol levels. He was supposed because there was no way to prove whether it was only meat contamination or if it was intentional.

That is why the NSAC requested Canelo submit to a hair follicle test specifically for Clenbuterol.
  • *Canelo Alvarez submitted to hair follicle testing at the request of the Nevada State Athletic Commission and the test came back negative for the banned performance-enhancing drug clenbuterol, lending some credence to Alvarez's insistence that his two positive drug tests for the substance in February, which caused his rematch with unified middleweight world champion Gennady Golovkin to be canceled, were caused by eating contaminated beef.

[Link View Has Been Removed. Click Here To Unlock This Content.]

Canelo cooperated, took the additional testing, came up clean. Couple that with the fact Canelo had random drug testing to for GGG 1, GGG 2, Floyd, Trout, and at least one other fight (can't remember which) - all came up clean.

What was UNIQUE to Canelo's urine tests was them occurring in Mexico which had never happened before. And Mexico is notorious for using Clenbuterol in their meat...several boxers, NFL players, weightlifters, and even a kids soccer tournament produced PED levels for Clenbuterol just by...eating in Mexico.



Not only can Canelo be considered he will be anointed:

Mr. Middleweight Ca$hnelo aka Mr. Pound-for-Pound Ca$hnelo
You might want to add this to your "sources" too.

[Link View Has Been Removed. Click Here To Unlock This Content.]


The hair test

"There has been a push in some quarters to use the “hair test” in order to convict or clear Canelo. To hear it told, this hair test is the answer to every question. In reality, hair testing for clenbuterol isn’t used for a reason; it’s incredibly unreliable.

The amount of clenbuterol that shows up in hair varies massively depending on factors like hair color. One study gave a group of people the same amount of clenbuterol. One participant, a 27-year-old female, showed 23 ng/g of clenbuterol in her hair afterwards. Another participant, also a 27-year-old female, showed 161 ng/g of clenbuterol in her hair. They both took the exact same amount, but one had seven times as much in her sample. The suggested reason for this discrepancy? The women had different hair color. This hair color discrepancy was supported by the other data in the study.

That might sound ridiculous, but other studies have found the same thing.

Another study, with more participants, found that even among subjects with similar hair color, the variation is still large. Despite every subject having hair listed as “brown” or “dark brown”, this study also found significant variation:

The lowest detected amount of clenbuterol in the first segment of hair was 0.43 pg/ng, the largest amount was 4.76 pg/ng. Both of these subjects had hair classed as “brown,” and both took the same amount of clenbuterol in the same way. That’s a difference of an entire order of magnitude. A similar issue was found in the second segments, which ranged from a detected amount of 0.00 pg/ng to 0.86 pg/ng.

Tests that have results varying by so much even under a controlled conditions are not reliable tests. The idea that they would somehow give us the information we need to determine if Canelo accidentally or deliberately ingested clenbuterol is ridiculous."

You're so rational you want to use an unreliable test to prove someone innocent while at the SAME time claim that its impossible that he used? Lmfao

The only thing "hair follicle " testing proves is there was no clenbuterol in his system at the time of the test. He 100% could have cycled off of it.
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Old 01-23-2019, 12:15 AM #97
KillaMane26 KillaMane26 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion81 View Post
Also Maidana and Pac were with controversy. Plus earlier in his career to many he lost to an old Oscar De La Hoya and he DEFINITELY LOST to Castillo. That robbery was CRIMINAL.
Lmfao....He had close fight with Maidana and lost to Castillo jackazz
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Old 01-23-2019, 01:29 AM #98
Bjl12 Bjl12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjl12 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrap View Post
They weren't within the expected levels or else he wouldn't have been suspended for 6 months.
Wrong. As I originally stated - GGG/Pacstans can't have a rational discussion about ANYTHING.
  • *“These values are all within the range of what is expected from meat contamination,” Daniel Eichner, director of SMRTL, the World Anti-Doping Agency that conducted the test announced in a letter."

[Link View Has Been Removed. Click Here To Unlock This Content.]

Canelo wasn't suspended for the Clenbuterol levels. He was supposed because there was no way to prove whether it was only meat contamination or if it was intentional.

That is why the NSAC requested Canelo submit to a hair follicle test specifically for Clenbuterol.
  • *Canelo Alvarez submitted to hair follicle testing at the request of the Nevada State Athletic Commission and the test came back negative for the banned performance-enhancing drug clenbuterol, lending some credence to Alvarez's insistence that his two positive drug tests for the substance in February, which caused his rematch with unified middleweight world champion Gennady Golovkin to be canceled, were caused by eating contaminated beef.

[Link View Has Been Removed. Click Here To Unlock This Content.]

Canelo cooperated, took the additional testing, came up clean. Couple that with the fact Canelo had random drug testing to for GGG 1, GGG 2, Floyd, Trout, and at least one other fight (can't remember which) - all came up clean.

What was UNIQUE to Canelo's urine tests was them occurring in Mexico which had never happened before. And Mexico is notorious for using Clenbuterol in their meat...several boxers, NFL players, weightlifters, and even a kids soccer tournament produced PED levels for Clenbuterol just by...eating in Mexico.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrap View Post
It's also a genuine question. Whatever your thoughts are on the situation it doesn't change the fact that on his record he was suspended for 6 months for testing positive for a PED. Can he still be considered?
Not only can Canelo be considered he will be anointed:

Mr. Middleweight Ca$hnelo aka Mr. Pound-for-Pound Ca$hnelo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrap View Post
They weren't within the expected levels or else he wouldn't have been suspended for 6 months.

It's also a genuine question. Whatever your thoughts are on the situation it doesn't change the fact that on his record he was suspended for 6 months for testing positive for a PED. Can he still be considered?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrap View Post
I'm not going to bother arguing, as that's derailing my point. No matter what you think of the situation - that black mark is on his record forever.

However you feel about it won't change the fact that it's there. It will have an impact. I just don't know whether that impact is disqualification or just a big asterisk.
This GGG/Pacstan literally asks for evidence surrounding the circumstance of the clenbuterol sources.

Provided evidence

"I'm not going to bother arguing..."

Thanks trash
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Old 01-23-2019, 01:36 AM #99
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socialtwinkie View Post
You might want to add this to your "sources" too.

[Link View Has Been Removed. Click Here To Unlock This Content.]


The hair test

"There has been a push in some quarters to use the “hair test” in order to convict or clear Canelo. To hear it told, this hair test is the answer to every question. In reality, hair testing for clenbuterol isn’t used for a reason; it’s incredibly unreliable.

The amount of clenbuterol that shows up in hair varies massively depending on factors like hair color. One study gave a group of people the same amount of clenbuterol. One participant, a 27-year-old female, showed 23 ng/g of clenbuterol in her hair afterwards. Another participant, also a 27-year-old female, showed 161 ng/g of clenbuterol in her hair. They both took the exact same amount, but one had seven times as much in her sample. The suggested reason for this discrepancy? The women had different hair color. This hair color discrepancy was supported by the other data in the study.

That might sound ridiculous, but other studies have found the same thing.

Another study, with more participants, found that even among subjects with similar hair color, the variation is still large. Despite every subject having hair listed as “brown” or “dark brown”, this study also found significant variation:

The lowest detected amount of clenbuterol in the first segment of hair was 0.43 pg/ng, the largest amount was 4.76 pg/ng. Both of these subjects had hair classed as “brown,” and both took the same amount of clenbuterol in the same way. That’s a difference of an entire order of magnitude. A similar issue was found in the second segments, which ranged from a detected amount of 0.00 pg/ng to 0.86 pg/ng.

Tests that have results varying by so much even under a controlled conditions are not reliable tests. The idea that they would somehow give us the information we need to determine if Canelo accidentally or deliberately ingested clenbuterol is ridiculous."e

You're so rational you want to use an unreliable test to prove someone innocent while at the SAME time claim that its impossible that he used? Lmfao

The only thing "hair follicle " testing proves is there was no clenbuterol in his system at the time of the test. He 100% could have cycled off of it.
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Old 01-23-2019, 02:40 AM #100
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socialtwinkie View Post
You might want to add this to your "sources" too.

[Link View Has Been Removed. Click Here To Unlock This Content.]

The hair test

"There has been a push in some quarters to use the “hair test” in order to convict or clear Canelo. To hear it told, this hair test is the answer to every question. In reality, hair testing for clenbuterol isn’t used for a reason; it’s incredibly unreliable.

The amount of clenbuterol that shows up in hair varies massively depending on factors like hair color. One study gave a group of people the same amount of clenbuterol. One participant, a 27-year-old female, showed 23 ng/g of clenbuterol in her hair afterwards. Another participant, also a 27-year-old female, showed 161 ng/g of clenbuterol in her hair. They both took the exact same amount, but one had seven times as much in her sample. The suggested reason for this discrepancy? The women had different hair color. This hair color discrepancy was supported by the other data in the study.

That might sound ridiculous, but other studies have found the same thing.

Another study, with more participants, found that even among subjects with similar hair color, the variation is still large. Despite every subject having hair listed as “brown” or “dark brown”, this study also found significant variation:

The lowest detected amount of clenbuterol in the first segment of hair was 0.43 pg/ng, the largest amount was 4.76 pg/ng. Both of these subjects had hair classed as “brown,” and both took the same amount of clenbuterol in the same way. That’s a difference of an entire order of magnitude. A similar issue was found in the second segments, which ranged from a detected amount of 0.00 pg/ng to 0.86 pg/ng.

Tests that have results varying by so much even under a controlled conditions are not reliable tests. The idea that they would somehow give us the information we need to determine if Canelo accidentally or deliberately ingested clenbuterol is ridiculous."

You're so rational you want to use an unreliable test to prove someone innocent while at the SAME time claim that its impossible that he used? Lmfao

The only thing "hair follicle " testing proves is there was no clenbuterol in his system at the time of the test. He 100% could have cycled off of it.
There is very little chance of you actually responding the reply I've produced here. Partly because it will emotionally scar you and partly because you're an idiot. Anyhow, enjoy :-]

As usual...GGG/Pacstan are Wrong. Again. And Again. And Again.

You cite an article from BloodyElbow that uses two "scientific" articles to support their assertion that hair cannot be used to test people for Clenbuterol. They are both legitimate scientific journals, but there are huge GLARING problems with BLH and their ability to understand science.

Also, before I dive in please remember that BLH/BloodyElbow as well as WonderWhiteBreadMan Stephen E (of this website) are extremely biased especially of white fighters. This is a long-running theme on their articles and I can prove that with "evidence" in a completely different discussion.

The first article used over at white-loving BloodyElbow cites an article from Clinical Chemistry (a real, legitimate journal of chemistry) which is from 1996. There's a reason scientists use "recent findings" to further their own understanding of matters...namely technology. The equipment used to analyze anything in 1996 is likely so outdated that it's findings are irrelevant.

Here's a simple picture of a 1996 cell phone:

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Taking a picture, recording audio, and doing ANY kind of measurement with THAT phone would produce completely useless data compared to a phone you purchase at ANY store today. (This is probably beyond your understanding, but try hard)

Let's talk about this 1996 study further and I'll explain why it's not remotely reliable...
  • Don't cry:
    * Men and women of different ages...unknown if they are white/black/Hispanic/Asian/etc...metabolism differs depending on race/ethnicity

    * No weights given...at all...yet ALL MEDICINE is prescribed/dosed by weight...(you probably don't know what this means so I'll dumb it down for you)...

    Two people receive 10mg of X. Person 1 weighs 40kg and Person 2 weighs 80kg. Person 1 is likely to experience twice the concentration and Person 2...medicinally Person 1 would receive 0.5 dosage compared to Person 2 1.0 dosage. (Try hard to understand)

    * Zero discussion of technology used...method explained (very poorly), but theirs no discussion about the specific equipment and whether that equipment has produced Accurate/Valid results (accuracy and validity are different - again, this is probably all new information for you) with other substances...

    * We don't know anything about the health status of participants. If half the participant pool had major health conditions (such as kidney impairment or cardiovascular disease) their metabolism is greatly different than a "normal health individual" and would produce skewed values of any substance (Clenbuterol or other)...(again, you don't know what any of this means since you're a GGG/Pacstan)

    *The best part of all this is that the GGG nuthuggers over at BloodyElbow even acknowledge the concept of "unreliability", but fail to understand why one of their cited sources could be "unreliable"...

Quote:
*Tests that have results varying by so much even under a controlled conditions are not reliable tests. The idea that they would somehow give us the information we need to determine if Canelo accidentally or deliberately ingested clenbuterol is ridiculous.
Now let's look at the second study which appears to be professionally conducted by contemporary standards...probably because it's from 2014. Anyhow, it's a great study albeit using a small pool of participants. Nonetheless the findings were suggestive of potential application:

Quote:
A sensitive liquid chromatography-tandem mass spectrometry (LC-MS/MS) method was developed to detect low clenbuterol residues in hair with a detection limit of 0.02 pg/mg. In contrast, discrimination to a typical abuse of clenbuterol is apparently possible. Due to these findings results of real doping control samples can be evaluated.
That's odd. Why would you (a Canelo dick sucking faggot and GGG nut worshipper) post a link that cites an article suggesting Clenbuterol hair follicle tests are effective for detecting "typical abuse of Clenbuterol" and suggesting "real doping control samples can be evaluated" so long as the concentration is not less than 20pg/mL?

Canelo's two failed tests were deemed "indicative of contaminated meat" by WADA lab director that collected the sample were recorded at 0.6-0.8ng/ml (which is 600-800pg/ml) and two days later 0.06-0.08ng/ml (which is 60-80pg/mL) and the study that YOU posted suggested it's chromatography technology could accurately, reliably, and validly detect clenbuterol using hair follices in samples equal to or greater than 0.02pg/mL (or 20ng/mL).

There's no debate Clenbuterol existed in Canelo's system - that's indisputable. That debate exists whether it was the result of ingested meat (via Mexican cattle contamination) or if it was intentionally used for PED purposes.

Let's remember the hair follicle test only ever happened at the request of the NSAC. Canelo didn't run, whine, and cry that this test would prove his innocence. He was merely complying with NSAC requests which - again - does support his stance of being innocent since he was #1 willing to take the test and #2 tested negative. Thirdly, Canelo has never tested positive before and he's had OSDT for at least four fights in his career: Austin Trout, Floyd Mayweather, GGG1, GGG2, and there's another I can't think of atm (and those are just the ones I KNOW about...possibly more).

Canelo's performance following 2nd fight (after being caught using PED's) was better (not worse) than his performance in the 1st fight. So, now off the PED's, Canelo did better? What? Yeah, he was never on PED's.

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