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Old 12-13-2018, 10:53 AM #11
chrisJS chrisJS is offline
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Originally Posted by lolpz View Post
Come on man, Martinez? Seriously?

Linares and Russell I gave him full credit for, look at my list. But you think Linares is better then Mikey Garcia? I think Loma would struggle with Robert Easter Jr. to be frank.

What Usyk did was literally enter a tournament in a stacked division with equally or near the same skill level guys and clean it out convincingly, which is what Ward did.

Fighting the "#1 fighter Martinez" in a division is NOT anywhere near what Usyk did. Every fighter in that WBSS tournament is p4p better then Martinez.
I agree Martinez isn't that good but he was the #1 ranked in that division so that's my point.

Easter would be easy work IMO. He's pretty bad and Linares was ranked #1 because of his body of work at 135. Mikey had only one fight there before Loma-Linares.
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Old 12-13-2018, 10:54 AM #12
SniXSniPe SniXSniPe is offline
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Originally Posted by lolpz View Post
Come on man, Martinez? Seriously?

Linares and Russell I gave him full credit for, look at my list. But you think Linares is better then Mikey Garcia? I think Loma would struggle with Robert Easter Jr. to be frank.

What Usyk did was literally enter a tournament in a stacked division with equally or near the same skill level guys and clean it out convincingly, which is what Ward did.

Fighting the "#1 fighter Martinez" in a division is NOT anywhere near what Usyk did. Every fighter in that WBSS tournament is p4p better then Martinez.
Linares was a bigger man than Lomachenko, and a top dog (since most figure Mikey is #1).

Russell is a top dog at 126 right now.

Walters was undeniably the boogeyman back in the day at 126. Then he moved up, and fought two fights he completely dominated (he whooped Marriage worse than Oscar Valdez, he lost maybe 1 round in a huge robbery against Sosa). People can hate all they want, but I know for a fact that Walters was borderline/#10ish on people's P4P lists back in 2015-2016. People just like to revise history and bash him for quitting, acting like he was never highly ranked since he lost to Loma, but in comparison, they backtrack on ranking guys like Thurman/Rigo/Ward who were on just as long layoffs (Walters was off 11 months just like Rigo, for example).

Rigo was P4P, but much smaller. Still a top level fighter regardless.

Usyk has no P4P wins. Gassiev was his closest one to date. He unified a division, but he hasn't done what Lomachenko has done, and that includes fighting and beating a bigger man.


I have to give it to Lomachenko at this point in time.

Last edited by SniXSniPe; 12-13-2018 at 10:57 AM.
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Old 12-13-2018, 12:03 PM #13
lolpz lolpz is online now
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Originally Posted by SniXSniPe View Post
Linares was a bigger man than Lomachenko, and a top dog (since most figure Mikey is #1).

Russell is a top dog at 126 right now.

Walters was undeniably the boogeyman back in the day at 126. Then he moved up, and fought two fights he completely dominated (he whooped Marriage worse than Oscar Valdez, he lost maybe 1 round in a huge robbery against Sosa). People can hate all they want, but I know for a fact that Walters was borderline/#10ish on people's P4P lists back in 2015-2016. People just like to revise history and bash him for quitting, acting like he was never highly ranked since he lost to Loma, but in comparison, they backtrack on ranking guys like Thurman/Rigo/Ward who were on just as long layoffs (Walters was off 11 months just like Rigo, for example).

Rigo was P4P, but much smaller. Still a top level fighter regardless.

Usyk has no P4P wins. Gassiev was his closest one to date. He unified a division, but he hasn't done what Lomachenko has done, and that includes fighting and beating a bigger man.


I have to give it to Lomachenko at this point in time.
My arguement is that Usyk's body of work is more impressive.

Usyk was in a loaded division where there were match ups you couldn't pick a winner in. Literal toss up fights. He ran through every single top guy in the division, undoubtably. Bredis fight could've gone either way I feel but other then that, you can't argue.

Has Lomachenko ever been in a fight where you couldn't pick a winner, other then the Rigo fight?

To me that's a clear indication Usyk has the better resume.

All those guys you pointed out in your argument, I gave Loma credit for.

Again, you point out Ward being on the list after such a long lay off, but the reason for that was because he basically did what Usyk did. There were BIG name EQUALLY matched fighters in his division which was loaded, and he fought and beat them all. That shows you how much weight doing what Ward and Usyk have accomlished, holds. But for some reason Usyk isn't getting as much credit as he deserves for doing it.



Why do we have Crawford, who arguably has the worst resume in the entire top 10 p4p list, sitting at #1?

If someone can answer that question and make a genuinely valid point with facts to back it up, I will accept it. If not, I'm done discussing this topic.

EDIT: Another thing I'd like to point out: weight hopping in smaller divisions is much easier then doing so in higher weight classes.

Last edited by lolpz; 12-13-2018 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 12-13-2018, 12:09 PM #14
Boxing Goat Boxing Goat is offline
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Originally Posted by RetroSpeed05 View Post
Who would you rate higher so far career wise?

Loma- 13 fights, 12wins,1 loss,9kos
Notable wins- Rocky,Gary Russell, Rigo, Linares, Pedraza, Sosa, Walters
Accomplishments- 3 weight champion just unified in 135.
Blemish when comparing- Has a loss

Usyk- 16 fights,16 wins, 12kos

Notable wins- Głowacki, Mchunu, Hunter, Huck, Briedis, Gassiev, Bellew

Accomplishments- Unified all 4 belts at CW.

Blemish when comparing- Only one weight division, and looked less impressive in a lot of fights compared to Loma.
Huh? Loma is P4P #1 with titles in 3 weight divisions.

This isn't a serious thread.
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Old 12-13-2018, 12:22 PM #15
SniXSniPe SniXSniPe is offline
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Originally Posted by lolpz View Post
My arguement is that Usyk's body of work is more impressive.

Usyk was in a loaded division where there were match ups you couldn't pick a winner in. Literal toss up fights. He ran through every single top guy in the division, undoubtably. Bredis fight could've gone either way I feel but other then that, you can't argue.

Has Lomachenko ever been in a fight where you couldn't pick a winner, other then the Rigo fight?

To me that's a clear indication Usyk has the better resume.

All those guys you pointed out in your argument, I gave Loma credit for.

Again, you point out Ward being on the list after such a long lay off, but the reason for that was because he basically did what Usyk did. There were BIG name EQUALLY matched fighters in his division which was loaded, and he fought and beat them all. That shows you how much weight doing what Ward and Usyk have accomlished, holds. But for some reason Usyk isn't getting as much credit as he deserves for doing it.



Why do we have Crawford, who arguably has the worst resume in the entire top 10 p4p list, sitting at #1?

If someone can answer that question and make a genuinely valid point with facts to back it up, I will accept it. If not, I'm done discussing this topic.

EDIT: Another thing I'd like to point out: weight hopping in smaller divisions is much easier then doing so in higher weight classes.
I don't want to argue about the Loma vs Usyk thing since we don't see eye to eye.

But for the bolded:

P4P ranking is based on a number of variables for me:

1) Division status - Is said fighter the undisputed king of their weight class? Are they dominating all the top fighters at their weight?

2) Weight Dominance - Is said fighter moving through weight classes? Even more impressive, is said fighter older and moving through weight classes (a boxer moving weight classes from 18-25 is less impressive than a fighter moving through weight classes at the age of 30 for example).

3) How does the fighter look? Is their any other fighter of the same size that could beat said fighter? Can this fighter go up in weight and beat champion-calibre fighters who have a: weight, height, and reach advantage?

So basically: Skill, Pedigree, and Weight/Size factors into P4P ranking for me.

So why is Crawford #1 (or just in general, top 3)?
-He is a multiple division champion.
-He has no defeats, no close fights, no blemishes on his resume.
-Dominated every opponent, including top fighters in his weight classes. He completely destroyed Jeff horn where a past his prime Pacquiao struggled hard. He made Postol look like a C-level fighter. He completely shut out an Olympic gold medalist in Felix Diaz. He stopped Gamboa. The list goes on, but he has beaten a lot of top 10 fighters (even if you don't highly rate them), and is now in his 3rd weight class.
-He most certainly passes everyone's eye test.
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Old 12-13-2018, 12:22 PM #16
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Usyk for me.

Picking up titles in multiple divisions can be easier than cleaning out a division. Ricky Burns is a 3 weight world champ. Broner is a 4 weight world champ (i think?). Most decent fighters can do this if they pick the right fights.

If you clean out a division, it means you really need to fight the best competition, no questions asked. I mean you can obviously ask how strong Cruiserweight really is, or 140 when Crawford did it when it was seen as a weak division but even so, you have to take on all comers to do what they did.

Isn't that why Hagler is so highly regarded? he just stayed in the division and took on the best competition available.

If Usyk goes up to heavyweight and looks just as good, then for me he is arguably the best fighter in boxing, unless Crawford does similar at Welterweight too.
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Old 12-13-2018, 12:35 PM #17
lolpz lolpz is online now
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Originally Posted by SniXSniPe View Post
I don't want to argue about the Loma vs Usyk thing since we don't see eye to eye.

But for the bolded:

P4P ranking is based on a number of variables for me:

1) Division status - Is said fighter the undisputed king of their weight class? Are they dominating all the top fighters at their weight?

2) Weight Dominance - Is said fighter moving through weight classes? Even more impressive, is said fighter older and moving through weight classes (a boxer moving weight classes from 18-25 is less impressive than a fighter moving through weight classes at the age of 30 for example).

3) How does the fighter look? Is their any other fighter of the same size that could beat said fighter? Can this fighter go up in weight and beat champion-calibre fighters who have a: weight, height, and reach advantage?

So basically: Skill, Pedigree, and Weight/Size factors into P4P ranking for me.

So why is Crawford #1 (or just in general, top 3)?
-He is a multiple division champion.
-He has no defeats, no close fights, no blemishes on his resume.
-Dominated every opponent, including top fighters in his weight classes. He completely destroyed Jeff horn where a past his prime Pacquiao struggled hard. He made Postol look like a C-level fighter. He completely shut out an Olympic gold medalist in Felix Diaz. He stopped Gamboa. The list goes on, but he has beaten a lot of top 10 fighters (even if you don't highly rate them), and is now in his 3rd weight class.
-He most certainly passes everyone's eye test.
I don't disagree with you on the eye test thing.

My issue is, aside from the eye test, you need at least one or two solid win on your resume.

His biggest win was a blown up 126lber Gamboa in 2014 (4 years ago) where Crawford was a huge lightweight.

But, eye test wise - yes he does pass that for me.

That's good enough for top 3 for me, depending on how qualifying the other candidates are. #1 ONLY if you have no one else who you can put there, which meand the top 10 p4p list would have to be pretty weak at the time.

Now go take a look at that p4p list for me one more time considering what I've said, and tell me I'm far fetched to make the argument I'm making.
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