Did Libya present an actual or imminent threat to the US?

[squealpiggy]

1st bolded. Oh it's there. And we all know it is. We can turn a blind eye and deaf ear to it if we want to. But it is there.

2nd bolded. I dont think people in this country hated Bush, I think they more or less couldn't stand his cowboy attitude without being able to articulate it without sounding like a drunken blithering idiot, being propped up with a stick and some twine. It spoke volumes when the respectable Colin Powell resigned, after he was made to look the part of a fool in front of the UN council for a war that was founded off of shoddy intellegence(We've never gotten anything THAT wrong in the history of our intellegence agencies). Which due to the absolute unwaivering patriotisim of our country passed congress with little to no resistance.

The real reason that the political right really hates Obama is obvious: Because he's a Democrat!

Hey Bill Clinton was a rapist who had people killed to protect his career, Obama is a secret muslim atheist who was really born in Kenya, JFK was in with the Mafia... Republicans inventing stories about Democrats seems to be a time honoured tradition in US politics, and the Democrats are not immune to their share of hysteria when the shoe is on the other foot.

[Jim Jeffries]

OK you really want to go down this path because I have a list as long as a football field about Bush, that won't be a problem.

That's great, but you forgot to mention one single thing here.

First off, BEFORE Obama came into office, when he was just running for office they did everything in order to discredit the man. From where he was born, his religion, his associations with Rev. Wright, his connections to Acorn.

So you're saying that they went after him harder than say Sarah Palin?

Him wanting to implement free healthcare as "Obama Care" and labeling it Socialist, which when you look at it plan for plan, was basically the same exact thing Bob Dole wanted to do when he was running yet I never heard one mention of Dole being a Socialist.

To seem to flop between "Jesus was a socialist (socialism is great") and "how dare they call Obama a socialist (implying that it's terrible.") I think the socialism rumors started when they found out that Obama's main mentor during his formative years was Frank Marshall Davis, a member of the Communist Party. And then grew when he started talking about spreading the wealth around. Compounded by his attempts at class warfare and making the tax cuts on the wealthy (a small fraction of the total cuts) a major issue in the next election.

Then when Obama's credentials were shown, instead of praise saying how intelligent the man is, he was called "elite" by the right. That he's not a man of the people....lol

What credentials? He's the most inexperienced President since Lincoln FFS. I don't think even Barry would deny that he's an elitist. Which is why he jammed this healthcare bill down our throats, even though most people didn't want it. The great Barry knows better than us peons, after all.

They even concocted some guy Joe the Plumber (remember him?) turns out, he wasn't a plumber and wasn't making the 250 K needed to be taxed by Obama's Socialistic plan to begin with...hahaha

Actually Joe was an employee of a plumbing contractor, who was thinking about starting his own company. Which is why he asked Barry the question. Instead of focusing on Barry's answer "I think when you spread the wealth around, everyone wins" they of course camped out at Joe's house and did everything to discredit him. "His name isn't even Joe" etc. Which I find funny because my dad goes by his middle name, always has.

Hatred from Bush on the other hand comes from a legitimate place. His STARTING of two wars which we are still currently in by the way. He said Iraq had WMD's, nope, not there. He tried to link 9/11 to Saddam and the dumbasses of this country fell for it.

Afghanistan was started when two planes were flown into the World Trade Center, another into the Pentagon and another crashed before hitting it's target. Bush relied on faulty intelligence in Iraq (about WMDs, which they had used against Iran,) but he hardly started those wars out of thin air. And he asked Congress's permission for both.

He said Saddam was an "eminent" threat to the U.S...nope not true either. He had Col. Powell sit in front of the U.N and give faulty intel, where later on Powell himself distanced himself from Bush.

Well Saddam was certainly more of a threat to us than Gaddafi, don't you think?

There are THOUSANDS of Americans and God knows how many tens of thousands if not more that have DIED because of these two wars and you wonder for a second why people have this hatred for Bush?

Despite Obama's promises, our soldiers are still dying in both countries. Record numbers of them died while Barry took months to approve the surge in Afghanistan.

I mean, I have traveled all over and seen drawings of Bush as Hitler for God's sake, when the hell has that ever happened in the world when it comes to an American president or the way the world sees us?

Yet you still get your panties in a twist over Barry taking a tenth of the heat that Bush did.

I don't even want to get into the scandals that Bush was involved in, from the CIA outings, to the treatment of patients at Walter Reid, to Katrina, to the U.S attorney stuff....I mean seriously man, I can go on and on for days.

Some specifics would be nice. If only Bush could've handled Katrina as efficiently as Barry handled the Gulf Oil Spill.

The worst thing Obama has done is want to give people free health care and he's been labeled a Socialist, Communist, terrorist sympathizer and wanting to distribute the wealth.

Really, that's the worst thing he's done? How about the 4 trillion that's been added to the deficit? (in 2 years mind you, compared to Bush's 5 trillion in 8) How about instead of enjoying a vibrant recovery right now, we have record numbers of people in poverty, gas and food prices are soaring, unemployment is through the roof, our dollar is in the toilet. (hell we've lost like 20 or 30% to the fricken Peso since he took office.)

His wife tells kids to eat healthy and that we should eat vegetables and Sarah Palin shows up in some elementary school undermining the first lady saying nobody should tell us what we should eat and hands out sugar cookies...hahaha Last thing American kids need is sugar cookies.

Yes his wife also tells students that they shouldn't go to work for evil corporations. Since when is Sarah Palin relevant to anything, besides how unfair the media is?

Everything Obama does, as benign as it may be, is portrayed by the right as some secret plan to destroy America, take away our guns and make the rich give the poor all their money. Then the worst line if all is "WE NEED TO TAKE OUR COUNTRY BACK!" Take our country back from what? WTF does that even imply?

That line gets to you eh? Maybe they mean take it back from the majority of people in this country that don't contribute one penny to the ever increasing Fedzilla, yet demand more and more every day, squeezing the life out of our once vibrant economy.

At least we had a reason with Bush, with Obama it's just pure hate. I guarantee you if Obama wasn't named "Barack Hussein Obama" and had the looks of Mitt Romney, he wouldn't get HALF the **** he does.

And finally the answer I was expecting. Funny that you should bring up Romney, who would probably be president if not for his faith (which is hated even by other Christians.) Attend an America-hating, Marxist hate cult for 20 years, no problem. But heaven forbid you're a Mormon.

There are lots of reasons to dislike Obama, you'd just rather ignore them. But ask yourself this: would you defend Obama this fervently if he did look like Romney?

[squealpiggy]

Well Saddam was certainly more of a threat to us than Gaddafi, don't you think?

This I disagree with. Gaddafi had already directly attacked the US with the Lockerbie bombing.

Libya has been done right - it is a multi-lateral action designed to level the field in favour of a popular uprising against a guy who was calling in airstrikes on his own civilians for protesting. The US has taken part in some combat missions to enable a no-fly zone to be put in place and has now stepped back to allow the people to overthrow a dictator watched over by the international community.

Iraq was bungled. A unilateral invasion with no long term goals and more emphasis on using intelligence to retroactively justify the engagement instead of to ensure its success.

There's a pattern here: When actions are ordered by Democrats you call them atrocities and when they are ordered by Republicans you call them justified. You're a knowledgeable and intelligent poster but your principle flaw is this dogmatic partisanship.

[ILLuminato]

The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation.

Candidate Obama, Dec 20, 2007.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/...ave-power-unde

And since when did the UN replace the usual congressional approval for an attack like this?

So Obama should've went to Congress and been like "OK LIBYA CLOSE YOUR EARS WERE GOING TO ATTACK YOU!!!!"

[Yuricane]

no, the white man just wanted their oil thats all same wid iraq....

[squealpiggy]

no, the white man just wanted their oil thats all same wid iraq....

This stunning insight into geopolitics and macro-economics was brought to you by the US public education system.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

[QUOTE=Jim Jeffries;10303454]

So you're saying that they went after him harder than say Sarah Palin?

Sarah Palin did it to herself, her interview with Couric sealed her fate. Everytime that woman opens her mouth it's a sound bite, the left needed no help on that one.

To seem to flop between "Jesus was a socialist (socialism is great") and "how dare they call Obama a socialist (implying that it's terrible.") I think the socialism rumors started when they found out that Obama's main mentor during his formative years was Frank Marshall Davis, a member of the Communist Party. And then grew when he started talking about spreading the wealth around. Compounded by his attempts at class warfare and making the tax cuts on the wealthy (a small fraction of the total cuts) a major issue in the next election.

There have been presidents with much worse ties and "associates" in recent history. First off, I never said Socialism was great, I don't know if you this but I am an American and a Capitalist, I don't think it's wrong. I just think that the world "Socialism" in America is all of a sudden a bad word when we have used socialistic ideals since this country's inception.

What credentials? He's the most inexperienced President since Lincoln FFS. I don't think even Barry would deny that he's an elitist. Which is why he jammed this healthcare bill down our throats, even though most people didn't want it. The great Barry knows better than us peons, after all.

I meant EDUCATION credentials. The man graduated top of his class at Harvard, was TEACHING Constitutional Law, he made his way to the top and that was without the help of his daddy.

Actually Joe was an employee of a plumbing contractor, who was thinking about starting his own company. Which is why he asked Barry the question. Instead of focusing on Barry's answer "I think when you spread the wealth around, everyone wins" they of course camped out at Joe's house and did everything to discredit him. "His name isn't even Joe" etc. Which I find funny because my dad goes by his middle name, always has.

Doesn't matter, he wasn't even a plumber and didn't have a business but the media wanted to turn it into that. Well specifically FoxNews, have to give it to them they are a propaganda machine, they are very good at what they do.

Afghanistan was started when two planes were flown into the World Trade Center, another into the Pentagon and another crashed before hitting it's target. Bush relied on faulty intelligence in Iraq (about WMDs, which they had used against Iran,) but he hardly started those wars out of thin air. And he asked Congress's permission for both.

If I am a manger of some business and I begin to lose money because some of my employees aren't doing what they need to be doing. The owner isn't going to say "It's not your fault, it's the employees fault". No, I will be fired becasue ultimately it's MY responsibility to make sure I have all the proper info, especially when it concerns hundred of thousands of lives. Bush fuked up in Iraq, you know this, I know this. Both wars are a failure because guns and bombs can't change a people, only education and revolution can like we are seeing now. Tunisia, Egypt and Libya are all changing and not one American bomb had to be dropped to do it, amazing what talking to people like intelligent adults can do hu?

Well Saddam was certainly more of a threat to us than Gaddafi, don't you think?

No, I don't. What threat was he? He didn't have WMD's, we propped him up against Iran and he wasn't a religious man. He ran one of the only secular govt's in the Middle East. In outing him we might have created more religious fervor than before he was there.

Despite Obama's promises, our soldiers are still dying in both countries. Record numbers of them died while Barry took months to approve the surge in Afghanistan.

That's because once Obama became president, he was briefed into what was really happening like all new presidents and realized we can't just pull out. First off because of Iran and Syria's presence there and the fact that if there is/was a civil war in Iraq, we would be held accountable for the blood shed there. So he has to clean up what hill billy Bush did, we have no choice.

Yet you still get your panties in a twist over Barry taking a tenth of the heat that Bush did.

It wouldn't bother me if it came from intelligent critique. They hate Obama just to hate him, this week was particularly funny to me. The same pundits who wanted immediate action in Libya, did a 180 and are now crushing him for going in.....can't win no matter what.

Some specifics would be nice. If only Bush could've handled Katrina as efficiently as Barry handled the Gulf Oil Spill.

Don't play dumb, you are intelligent enough to know EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

Really, that's the worst thing he's done? How about the 4 trillion that's been added to the deficit? (in 2 years mind you, compared to Bush's 5 trillion in 8) How about instead of enjoying a vibrant recovery right now, we have record numbers of people in poverty, gas and food prices are soaring, unemployment is through the roof, our dollar is in the toilet. (hell we've lost like 20 or 30% to the fricken Peso since he took office.)

Yup because that's all HIS fault isn't it...It's ok though, I understand the way politics works. He's in the drivers seat, he gets the blame, fair enough.

Yes his wife also tells students that they shouldn't go to work for evil corporations. Since when is Sarah Palin relevant to anything, besides how unfair the media is?

Every presidents wife takes on some benign cause. For Nancy Reagan it was SAy No To Drugs, for Barbara Bush it was literacy, there have been many others. To even criticize the fact she doesn't want fat kids running around and then turn it into the Evil Obama's trying to change your American way of life, is amazing to say the least.

Never has a first lady been attacked this way but yet it's just coincidence with the Obama's.

That line gets to you eh? Maybe they mean take it back from the majority of people in this country that don't contribute one penny to the ever increasing Fedzilla, yet demand more and more every day, squeezing the life out of our once vibrant economy.

That line does bother me and the people who say it don't understand how offensive it truly is. I'm sick and tired of people like Sarah Palin telling me that if we don't think like her, talk like her and act like her, we aren't REALLY Americans....fuk that stupid b1tch.

And finally the answer I was expecting. Funny that you should bring up Romney, who would probably be president if not for his faith (which is hated even by other Christians.) Attend an America-hating, Marxist hate cult for 20 years, no problem. But heaven forbid you're a Mormon.

There are lots of reasons to dislike Obama, you'd just rather ignore them. But ask yourself this: would you defend Obama this fervently if he did look like Romney?

You know it's true, you can take the politically correct road to this but the way Obama was shouted down during a speech in front of Congress, called a liar has NEVER happened in American politics in the 200+ yrs. People hated Bush but there was at least a sign of respect for the office, the position that Obama doesn't get.

Rush Limbaugh for months called him Obama or "senator Obama" even when he was the president. O'Reilly in a recent interview, interrupted the man so many times and acted like he was talking to some old college buddy. HE'S THE FUKIN PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, give the man some basic respect he deserves.

There's a reason he has the highest level of security of any president, it's because of the way he looks. You know you can't deny this.

Oh and if he looked like Mitt Romney, it wouldn't make a difference to me because guess what, every president in my life time and in the history of this country has looked like Romney so why would it all of a sudden make a difference now?