Which LHW has the best chance of beating Liston/Foreman

[QueensburyRules]

Liston was IMO a better fighter, but Foreman was ever so slightly a harder puncher and while Liston was a fantastic finisher, measuring guys, Foreman was more straight on relentless. they have a lot of similarities also and Liston was a big influence on Foreman.

Foreman had problems with guys like Young... boxers who could keep it together under pressure.

I don't think the Jinx makes it past big george. We have some idea about Moore, he was beating the second coming of George then got sloppy, I think he would fair better against big george, I could see Moore winning. Tunney could certainly outbox Foreman.

- -It's Moorer, not Archie Moore who was in George's corner that fateful night.

And young George goes thru him like a knife thru butter.

And all Young did was to run from the beating George gave him before walking him into a KD. And that was 77 George being given the run around by DKing and Ali, the biggest fight in boxing they ducked out of.

Boxers had trouble with George, not him with them. Beat Peralta twice whose a better boxer than Young who was a stinker/spoiler that has regrettably in fashion among Americans much to their demise in the rankings these past 20 yrs.

[billeau2]

- -It's Moorer, not Archie Moore who was in George's corner that fateful night.

And young George goes thru him like a knife thru butter.

And all Young did was to run from the beating George gave him before walking him into a KD. And that was 77 George being given the run around by DKing and Ali, the biggest fight in boxing they ducked out of.

Boxers had trouble with George, not him with them. Beat Peralta twice whose a better boxer than Young who was a stinker/spoiler that has regrettably in fashion among Americans much to their demise in the rankings these past 20 yrs.

I know I am talking about Michael M, not Archie, specifically when Big George fought Michael Moore. Michael Moore was well regarded in the Kronk as a very talented fighter who never put it all together.

Ali to me is a special one, but a boxer puncher. I don't know enough about peralta to compare him to Young...Young did stupid things but imo was a very good boxer.

[Rermeadmire]

Which LHW has the best chance of beating Liston/Foreman

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[uncle ben]

Liston was IMO a better fighter, but Foreman was ever so slightly a harder puncher and while Liston was a fantastic finisher, measuring guys, Foreman was more straight on relentless. they have a lot of similarities also and Liston was a big influence on Foreman.

Foreman had problems with guys like Young... boxers who could keep it together under pressure.

I don't think the Jinx makes it past big george. We have some idea about Moore, he was beating the second coming of George then got sloppy, I think he would fair better against big george, I could see Moore winning. Tunney could certainly outbox Foreman.

I think Moorer would get plastered by 25 year old Foreman as quickly as Norton did.

[OctoberRed]

I think Moorer is great, but his chin is not.

[them_apples]

Qawi did fight old ass foreman and he didn't stand a chance. Prime for prime it would have been a 1 round blowout.

I would go with Charles though. Second Spinks not the retired version Tyson fought.

The others guys I'd pick tried and lost bad. Like Michael Moorer for example.

[Rusty Tromboni]

- -Old George bounced Qawi around like basketball.

And Rustysan, I've seen most of the tape existent of the 4 I mentioned, nor did I give them much chance.

You need an elementary school reading refresher?

OK then!

So even after seeing:
- Bivins drop prime Charles in the opening stanza
- Johnson out-class him
- Walcott smear his face
- And Marciano commit a near homicide (texas chainsaw style)

you STILL think Charles doesn't rush into Liston's artillery, but instead magically turns into a 190 pound-version of Willie Pep!?!?!

Even though the footage tells you Charles can't beat Liston in a fire fight, you still pick him to go in there and win?

How did that work for Patterson?

That's like saying, "I was turned down at the Cadillac dealership today, but that's OK because tomorrow I'll be visiting the folks at Jaguar."



The Dempsey dethroned by Tunney wasn't the human saw he'd been when he flat-lined Wills, but he was still a much more mobile than Liston. Not to mention, he was much more creative offensively. Tunney, when seen in color, is easily recognized as a lythe fighter with masterful control of distance and position. Something the bigger Liston was too dumb and ponderous to overcome.

Not to mention, Jack said Tunney had the best punch of any opponent he faced. Definitely gonna punish Liston's mistakes in a way no other Light Heavyweight could.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Tunney is definitely on the list. No reason needs to be given, other than he was that good.

I actually think Michael Moore, the one that showed up to fight Holy the first fight at least, could be a problem for Liston... The guys that baffled Liston, so to speak, either got inside of him and could hang, or were clever boxers.
https://www.si.com/vault/1964/02/10/...baffled-liston

Moore was a hell of a boxer, a southpaw, and could slip into a puncher.

I love Moorer. But I think Liston's composure and jab eventually spell doom. Moorer was very talented, but a reminder why we need a 200 pound division, separate the modern true Heavyweights.

He reminds me of Donovan McNabb, honestly.

I think Moorer is great, but his chin is not.

Oh. no he didn't!!

Damn!

Words hurt, bro! Most of all when they speak the truth.

Qawi did fight old ass foreman and he didn't stand a chance. Prime for prime it would have been a 1 round blowout.

I would go with Charles though. Second Spinks not the retired version Tyson fought.

The others guys I'd pick tried and lost bad. Like Michael Moorer for example.

see below:

Im torn on the Jinx. I never like to go against precedent because it is objective and gives us real clues. Tyson was a lot quicker on his feet, but did not have the reach that Liston did. According to precedent Spinks would get in over his head at some point because of Liston's size and weapons....But on the other hand, Spinks had all the tools to fight back and move. Im on the fence here.

I know I am forgetting some lol.

Edit: I didn't see the "or" Foreman!!! So my list is for Liston.

I dunno what you guys like about Spinks. He didn't like Qawi's power. And even if he was better at Heavyweight than Light Heavyweight, his Heavyweight record is just as contrived.

seriously, what good does it do Spinks to place himself right where Liston wants him!?

Spinks is NOT who you want in there. He's barely ambulatory, and needs his size and range. Getting bullied by a stronger man completely diffuses his traps.


Really, a prime Loughran would be my pick, after Tunney, since he proved his could handle HUGE punchers at both weights. And he could stay on his wheels all night. He was a genius and master.

[billeau2]

I love Moorer. But I think Liston's composure and jab eventually spell doom. Moorer was very talented, but a reminder why we need a 200 pound division, separate the modern true Heavyweights.

He reminds me of Donovan McNabb, honestly.




Oh. no he didn't!!

Damn!

Words hurt, bro! Most of all when they speak the truth.


see below:



I dunno what you guys like about Spinks. He didn't like Qawi's power. And even if he was better at Heavyweight than Light Heavyweight, his Heavyweight record is just as contrived.

seriously, what good does it do Spinks to place himself right where Liston wants him!?

Spinks is NOT who you want in there. He's barely ambulatory, and needs his size and range. Getting bullied by a stronger man completely diffuses his traps.


Really, a prime Loughran would be my pick, after Tunney, since he proved his could handle HUGE punchers at both weights. And he could stay on his wheels all night. He was a genius and master.

Spinks boxes very well, has a lot of tools. I have not seen enough of Loughran to know much. Tyson certainly beat him up, but he beat Cooney...a big man and Qawi was no slouch, not a small light heavy. I don't see him lacking mobility Rusty. I do think he was a late starter as a professional and could have done a lot more if Leone had not been the focus of the family coming up. but he arguably outboxed Holmes, a fighter with great lateral movement and a great jab... So we know he had some tools to deal with Liston's jab.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Spinks boxes very well, has a lot of tools. I have not seen enough of Loughran to know much. Tyson certainly beat him up, but he beat Cooney...a big man and Qawi was no slouch, not a small light heavy. I don't see him lacking mobility Rusty. I do think he was a late starter as a professional and could have done a lot more if Leone had not been the focus of the family coming up. but he arguably outboxed Holmes, a fighter with great lateral movement and a great jab... So we know he had some tools to deal with Liston's jab.

Liston used his jab completely differently than Holmes. And his whole approach was diametrically opposed to Holmes'. Holmes had power, but not the kind to get anyone out of there early. He really depended on attrition. Liston was entering the ring to kill you. the fast ther better.

Spinks actually did more with less than almost any other great i can think of. Had he come of age in Liston's era he probably wouldn't have fought in any division other than Heavyweight. Just too big for 175.

Really, his lack of speed gets him killed against Liston. Tyson beat a 32 year old w/ only 30 something fights. How are you gonna make excuses for that?