Kevin Iole: "It is NOT fair to say the Floyd hasn't faced an elite WW before"

[Pocket Dogs!]

To say that Floyd hasn't fought an elite welterweight yet is true but to say that Floyd hasn't fought a REAL welterweight? Floyd fought Baldomir (who is **** on here from pillar to post) but the thing is, everybody wanted Floyd to fight Baldomir (look at the Brian Kenny ESPN interview). And what did Floyd do? He destroyed him. And to say that he fought a fighter in Judah who just lost to Baldomir. Keep in mind that his fight with Judah was already signed, sealed, and delivered because Judah's fight with Baldomir was supposed to be a tune-up for the Floyd fight. Unfortunately, Judah had to become a douche and spoil it all.

[Ray*]

To say that Floyd hasn't fought an elite welterweight yet is true but to say that Floyd hasn't fought a REAL welterweight? Floyd fought Baldomir (who is **** on here from pillar to post) but the thing is, everybody wanted Floyd to fight Baldomir (look at the Brian Kenny ESPN interview). And what did Floyd do? He destroyed him. And to say that he fought a fighter in Judah who just lost to Baldomir. Keep in mind that his fight with Judah was already signed, sealed, and delivered because Judah's fight with Baldomir was supposed to be a tune-up for the Floyd fight. Unfortunately, Judah had to become a douche and spoil it all.

Agreed, Unless the word "elite" is now so low then i wouldnt even put anyone up has an elite WW in the last 5 years...By the time Mayweather got to WW in 2005/2006 the only fighters around WW were people like Judah,Margarito..Spinks and Mosley were dancing with rebuilding and fighting at 154ish.

I cant even name one elite fighter in around WW in that time because none of them had done anything exceptional to be class as Elite at 147.

[daggum]

judah was thought to be finished goods when he fought spinks the first time. kostya had just humiliated him. then he had a terrible fight against corley which he won by debatable split decision. spinks wanted a big name scalp and did so in the first fight rather easily.

after the first fight judah looked terrible in winning a debatable split decision over a faded pineda so spinks instead of fighting margarito who had been number 1 for years gave judah another rematch. he was so confident of another win he fought in front of his homecrowd and wasted all his energy dancing to a 20 minute ring entrance. judah went on to win of course but this was just a mirage as he went on to lose all his other fights at welterweight including to the journeyman baldomir. baldomir went on to beat a super shot gatti who had no business fighting at welterweight or at all.

so were baldomir and judah elite? not in my mind. elite means you have established yourself over a period of time against top competition. guys such as margarito(top 3 for 8 years), cotto(fought everyone in the last 5 years) williams or pac.

[daggum]

To say that Floyd hasn't fought an elite welterweight yet is true but to say that Floyd hasn't fought a REAL welterweight? Floyd fought Baldomir (who is **** on here from pillar to post) but the thing is, everybody wanted Floyd to fight Baldomir (look at the Brian Kenny ESPN interview). And what did Floyd do? He destroyed him. And to say that he fought a fighter in Judah who just lost to Baldomir. Keep in mind that his fight with Judah was already signed, sealed, and delivered because Judah's fight with Baldomir was supposed to be a tune-up for the Floyd fight. Unfortunately, Judah had to become a douche and spoil it all.

that deal was only contingent on if judah beat baldomir. once he lost the deal was off. but floyd reworked the contract so the fight would still go on but floyd got the lions share of the money. judah happily accepted for another chance at glory.

[Ray*]

judah was thought to be finished goods when he fought spinks the first time. kostya had just humiliated him. then he had a terrible fight against corley which he won by debatable split decision. spinks wanted a big name scalp and did so in the first fight rather easily.

after the first fight judah looked terrible in winning a debatable split decision over a faded pineda so spinks instead of fighting margarito who had been number 1 for years gave judah another rematch. he was so confident of another win he fought in front of his homecrowd and wasted all his energy dancing to a 20 minute ring entrance. judah went on to win of course but this was just a mirage as he went on to lose all his other fights at welterweight including to the journeyman baldomir. baldomir went on to beat a super shot gatti who had no business fighting at welterweight or at all.

baldomir and judah elite? not in my mind. elite means you have established yourself over a period of time against top competition. guys such as margarito(top 3 for 8 years), cotto(fought everyone in the last 5 years) williams or pac.

Baldomir and Judah werent elite to me in 2006, Margarito and cotto are not elite in 2006, I would how ever call Margarito and cotto elite WW in 2008/2009.

[AntDawg]

Is that the standard for being a elite fighter or Welterweight?
and if you are coming off a loss you can not be elite?

please do not duck this question...

Sure you can but who did Judah beat besides Spinks to be considered elite? He lost to Boldimir, Mayweather, Cotto, and Clottey.

[edgarg]

Spinks was never an elite cruiserweight.

Well, of course it's all debateable, True elitism isn't normally properly recognised until parhaps years after a fighter retires, and then is compared to the present crop of fighters, perhaps the distant past.......who knows?

I regard Spinks as elite because he was undefeated, had cleaned out his division, actually the LIGHT-HEAVYWEIGHT division, was the unified and lineal champion, with about 12 defences all won by KO except , say, 2, ..................and was good enough to win the heavyweight title against a heavyweight champion who is recognised as being one of the top 5 of all time.

I would be happy to see your definition of an elite fighter.....seriously.

[R.Winky Wright]

wow then where does the put the PAC MAN?

still doesn't change the fact that he fought a fighter coming off of a loss.

again,

The elite WW he fought was coming off of a loss.

[edgarg]

in this discussion of ``člite-ness`` we have to understand, and accept that ANY fighter who turns in explosive, excellent performances, and is, say 25-0 seems to be on his way to being, one day, an elite fighter.

It is his performance as he gets into the prime and after, of his career, which can stamp his credentials for posterity.

Many a hailed ``best ever fighter`` has fallen by the wayside, and shown, by his conduct and results, that in fact he was NOT, and would never be, elite.

Zab Judah is a perfect example of this.

[Ray*]

in this discussion of ``člite-ness`` we have to understand, and accept that ANY fighter who turns in explosive, excellent performances, and is, say 25-0 seems to be on his way to being, one day, an elite fighter.

It is his performance as he gets into the prime and after, of his career, which can stamp his credentials for posterity.

Many a hailed ``best ever fighter`` has fallen by the wayside, and shown, by his conduct and results, that in fact he was NOT, and would never be, elite.

Zab Judah is a perfect example of this.

I dont think anyone is disputing your meaning of an elite fighters, But the topic was really about elite welterweights..