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Old 01-17-2020, 08:52 PM #11
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Originally Posted by pacphobia View Post
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CBZ used to be the end all, be all for lineal, but unfortunately in recent years there have been too many instances where CBZ's decision wasn't based on a consensus. So there's no longer one definitive place to point to for lineal anymore.
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Old 01-17-2020, 09:15 PM #12
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Originally Posted by Fists_of_Fury View Post
Pacquiao LOST to Floyd, the Lineal champion. Floyd retired. Pacquiao never beat the consensus #1 or #2 at welterweight while he was #1 or #2. Tim Bradley was never consensus #1 or #2. Stop with the bull****. Pacquiao is an amazing ATG that accomplished a lot. But he was NEVER Lineal at welterweight. He still could end up Lineal though.
I like Pacxquiao but he never was the lineal champ. He would have to beat both Crawford and Spence to have a solid claim to being the lineal champ. He was impressive beating Thurman but Thurman was not lineal either. Thurman had been out of action for two years and looked like garbage beating Lopez. I think he loses to both Crawford and Spence but if he beat them both I would consider him the lineal champ but that is not ever going to happen.
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Old 01-17-2020, 09:24 PM #13
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Originally Posted by Fists_of_Fury View Post
Judah was Undisputed and Lineal at welterweight. It doesn't mean Zab or Baldomir were necessarily better than Manny or could beat him but they were actually Lineal, unlike Manny.
and that in turn means what? being lineal sounds nice but it doesn't inherently mean anything out of context. they clearly wanted no part of marg who was #1 for 3 years and would have mopped the floor with them. they played a nice game of pass the hot potato with that lineal title: mayorga, spinks, judah, baldomir, floyd. how can you be the best while ignoring the #1 guy? same thing happened to ggg. he was #1 for 5 years before he got a shot at "the man" cotto was lineal therefore what? he's better than ggg? its meaningless in this era when you can simply duck and dodge anyone and form your own boxing reality where some guys dont exist.
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Old 01-17-2020, 09:49 PM #14
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Wait paddy Duffy.....that cant be where puff daddy got his name from can it???? Lol
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Old 01-17-2020, 09:57 PM #15
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Cognitive dissonance is rampant with the 48ers. The word consensus seems to puzzle them. The lineal welterweight championship has been vacant and is still vacant since Floyd retired. Tim Bradley was never a consensus #1 or #2 welterweight.
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Old 01-17-2020, 10:37 PM #16
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Originally Posted by daggum View Post
and that in turn means what? being lineal sounds nice but it doesn't inherently mean anything out of context. they clearly wanted no part of marg who was #1 for 3 years and would have mopped the floor with them. they played a nice game of pass the hot potato with that lineal title: mayorga, spinks, judah, baldomir, floyd. how can you be the best while ignoring the #1 guy? same thing happened to ggg. he was #1 for 5 years before he got a shot at "the man" cotto was lineal therefore what? he's better than ggg? its meaningless in this era when you can simply duck and dodge anyone and form your own boxing reality where some guys dont exist.

Yup very true except heavyweight where it has been well respected and preserved because it is not up for discussion if wlad was the consensus number 1 before he lost it to fury.. fury has yet to lose it and win or lose against wilder , the victor will be a worthy lineal champ
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Old 01-17-2020, 11:02 PM #17
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Greater than Floyd no matter what
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Old 01-17-2020, 11:39 PM #18
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Originally Posted by Young Bidness View Post
Yeah i donít get it either. Bradley fought less difficult and non seasoned Welterweights to be considered highs than Thurman. Keith got rid of Diego Chaves while Bradley was playing around with Chavez along with Brandon Rios....

Thurman for years always wanted the Floyd and PAC fight. He was notorious in interviews that he deserved the shot with Pac or Floyd. The WBA Regular since Chaves must have meant something...
Itís not fair to compare their timelines. Thurmanís career only took off in 2016-2017.
Bradley retired by then, bradleyís career took off way back when he beat prime alexander at 140. First fight with pac happened in 2012.
So nope no comparisons in their rankings at welter really happened.

Bradley was highly rated during his prime as well, and a fight with prime thurman would have been really interesting.

Regardless pac still managed to beat thurman at 40, so
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Old 01-18-2020, 12:07 AM #19
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Lineal means nothing outside of the HW division.

They all move up and down in weight = no such thing as lineal.
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Old 01-18-2020, 02:30 AM #20
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Originally Posted by dibzvincent143 View Post
Itís not fair to compare their timelines. Thurmanís career only took off in 2016-2017.
Bradley retired by then, bradleyís career took off way back when he beat prime alexander at 140. First fight with pac happened in 2012.
So nope no comparisons in their rankings at welter really happened.

Bradley was highly rated during his prime as well, and a fight with prime thurman would have been really interesting.

Regardless pac still managed to beat thurman at 40, so
Yeah well Pac is a commodity symbol for the sport, so industry lets passes him with lower standards. Fact is Thurman had documented injuries on his shoulder, surjery, healing, along with a car crash. Industry didn't focus on that but had it been another fighter people would've dismissed the win.

I guarantee you that if Haymon gave Broner a shot at Thurman's title and beat him, no one would credit Broner and write stories/articles to diminish the win because of Thurman's injuries. That's just the truth. Pac is fortunate that didn't happen considering he sided with Haymon. THey let him slide.
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