Huh?

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Have you seen these guys fight?


They are top shelf talent and easily 2 of the top 10 fighters in all of boxing

[Humean]

Both men are strong candidates for being the greatest amateur boxer in history.

[evets]

I would hazard to say that I've been watching boxing for longer than you've been alive. If this is what the sport is today, then it's sunk to the lowest level it's ever been at......and is grossly inferior to what it was just 15 years ago.

That's not what we are talking about at all, and I severely doubt that if you are undervaluing individuals with hundreds of amateur matches and saying they should be managed the same as mid tier talent and fighting cans for 10 fights before even pushing to see what they are capable of. The fact that you judge the entire sport by this and you judge this in such a harsh light shows you are not what you say you are. Fairweather fan? Wannabe? Or just an idiot? All 3? Never mind.

[StarshipTrooper]

That's not what we are talking about at all, and I severely doubt that if you are undervaluing individuals with hundreds of amateur matches and saying they should be managed the same as mid tier talent and fighting cans for 10 fights before even pushing to see what they are capable of. The fact that you judge the entire sport by this and you judge this in such a harsh light shows you are not what you say you are. Fairweather fan? Wannabe? Or just an idiot? All 3? Never mind.

And that's an ignore. Feel free to **** off.

[StarshipTrooper]

Yep, I know.

Just throwing a comparison in there.

Zora Foley whooped him too in the Amatuers and pro's.

Lomachenko and Rigondeaux are very talented fighters though.

Raw talent is worthless without experience.

[StarshipTrooper]

Both men are strong candidates for being the greatest amateur boxer in history.

That and four dollars gets you a latte at Starbucks.

[StarshipTrooper]

Have you seen these guys fight?


They are top shelf talent and easily 2 of the top 10 fighters in all of boxing

That reflects more on how awful this era of boxing than anything else. Nobody with ten or seventeen pro bouts should ever crack the top-10 in the world.....unless the experienced talent is at historically low levels because the sport is dying off.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

That reflects more on how awful this era of boxing than anything else. Nobody with ten or seventeen pro bouts should ever crack the top-10 in the world.....unless the experienced talent is at historically low levels because the sport is dying off.

Evander Holyfield, Oscar, and a host of other greats won belts before 17 fights

[StarshipTrooper]

Evander Holyfield, Oscar, and a host of other greats won belts before 17 fights

Should never have happened. They also weren't getting world title shots in their second fight, nor where they cracking the p4p lists.

[billeau2]

Should never have happened. They also weren't getting world title shots in their second fight, nor where they cracking the p4p lists.

Ill say nothing about the politics of who gets a crack at the gold rings... but regarding the evolution of the sport, Ray Corso, among others have pointed out that "the pro style has become very similar, albeit identical in most respects, to the amateur style. you watch fighters come up and fight you don't see the variety of fighting distances, styles, footwork, etc that used to make the pros a different sport.

For example, how many guys can fight inside? counterpunch effectively? You see more and more a game of tag, tit for tat, everything from the outside based on moving back and fourth, no angles to speak of...

So guys coming up from the Ammys tend to be more prepared to fight in the pros.

Strictly speaking as a martial artist I can tell you Starship that subtlety is the first to go when it comes to a collapsing skill set. It is always easier to teach people to be tough and take punches and throw punches, than it is to teach people to move 1/4th of an inch off center and sink their weight an inch or two...and the guys who knew how to do those subtletys start to dissappear, eventually leaving only the crude reminants of an art that was based on scientific principles and efficient movement.

So we have this story to illustrate this point: muestro bimba was an old Capoera master and he lived in dangerous times when lots of young lions roamed the streets of San Palo Brazil...sure enough a young lion asks him to "play" and one of the starting movements is to cartwheel into the circle where the feet rise up straight to the head area of the other guy who steps and does likewise, or some other movement...Well mr young lion suddenly whips into his Rodia movement his legs bent forwards in an effort to catch mastreo Bimba's head before the master can start his own movement....Bimba seeing this folds his body down into a front roll into young lion, so that by compacting his body into a ball, through efficiency he actually gets there first, where upon he extends his legs and his toe into young lion's mouth breaking off a few teeth.

Young lion looks up dazed and asks the master "what was that Maestro?" Where upon Maestro Bimba calmly states "that my son, was my big toe."

And there you have an example of the archetypical struggle between the need to overpower and the use of efficiency in the combat arts. I think this parable could be used for boxing as well, when we see someone, rarely these days, who really understands the technical tools of the trade, and that a boxing match is more than a back and fourth of who can punch the most, and the hardest.