What can Pac do to counter JMM's strategy?

[woopwoop]

I am not offended, and I don't really feel discredited but it is fine to have a different point of view it is an opinion based question. I am more of a JMM fan than a Manny fan but it is an interesting topic.

101 is kind of advanced because that implies an entry level college course, so it is not something a beginner would or should know but a seasoned pro it should be something they know.

Manny is not a bad technical boxer, he is actually a pretty good counter puncher, he knows how to defend himself and if he actually focused on his defense he would probably be a good defensive fighter. However when faced with a better technical fighter which JMM is, trying to match him in that way to me is a mistake.

Who knows though, Manny is a great fighter so if he puts in the proper work (which I would hope he is considering what happened his last two fights) he could make it work.

i beg to disagree, what Marquez is doing is NOT very technical, its kind of boxing fundamental actually, nothing too technical, very simple, but very effective against Manny. it was the simple style that i mentioned in this thread that was very effective against manny.

we will have to see in the fight.

[woopwoop]

The bold, well said, as I've been saying, trying to play chess with a chess master was plain stupid. Regardless of how one scored the first two fights, Pacquiao did his thing too, he stood on the attack and didn't give Marquez time to think.

its not a very technical move, its not like a chess move from a chess master, its kind of basic actually, simple but effective against manny.

[The Gambler1981]

i beg to disagree, what Marquez is doing is NOT very technical, its kind of boxing fundamental actually, nothing too technical, very simple, but very effective against Manny. it was the simple style that i mentioned in this thread that was very effective against manny.

we will have to see in the fight.

Simple can be technical, paying attention to the small simple things and doing them correctly is the heart of technical fighting because without that base you can't expand out.

It will be interesting to see what Manny tries to do about JMM because JMM is going to do what he did last time it will be up to Manny to make a counter move but no matter what I expect Manny to perform better than the third fight.

[woopwoop]

Marquez is 39 years old. Pacquiao needs to just go to war with him.

This is what Katsidis did, and Marquez was on his ass. Now, Katsidis did end up getting knocked out, but he's smaller, doesn't hit so hard, and has next-to-no defensive movement.

Pacquiao just needs to make this a high pressure fight, no more letting Marquez work at 35 shots a round - if Pacquiao can make Marquez work at 50+ shots a round, he'll be spent by the later rounds. He felt the pace in the 3rd fight, is carrying more muscle, and will simply wilt under a combination of the power, pace, and pressure Pacquiao can put on him. Something like what Pacquiao did to Bradley rounds 2-6.

If you are in a fighters face, not letting up, and you also use a bit of defense to make them miss, you can really force a fighter to work way harder than he's used to. Rios Alvarado - Rios was forcing Alvarado to work at 100+ shots a round, because Rios was working pretty well defensively (occasional lapses aside) and Alvarado was forced to work at that rate to be competitive.

Pacquiao _can_ do this to Marquez, because Marquez is not the hardest guy to hit if you are close to him. However, this needs the desire and will of a younger Pacquiao and politician Pacquiao simply might not fancy it.

i agree with the usual high work rate for Pac. i think we will still see the very entertaining high work rate from Pac.

[ADP02]

To give a good strategy, we need to realize what Marquez likes, dislikes, what he is great at and what makes him vulnerable. Of course then Manny needs to take advantage of what was concluded after answering my initial statement.

In general, Marquez is hoping that the next fight goes as planned .... Manny throws a punch and Marquez counters effectively and then they reset and start all over again.

Manny needs to attack more often to create the openings. Manny needs to lead more often, as an example, with double jabs and left hand shot but even more importantly, Manny needs to attack back when Marquez tries to counter. When Marquez counters, the opening is usually there.

Two things happen when Manny attacks after Marquez tries to counter.
1) That gives Manny the opportunity to hit Marquez while he is moving in. This can make the return punch be more effective without it having to be a bomb.
2) If Marquez realizes that something will be returned by Manny when Marquez counters then Marquez will become more hesitant. If this makes Marquez a bit more tentative then it gives Manny more of an edge and he gains the confidence as the fight progresses.

History has shown that whenever the fight turned into a war where they traded punches, Marquez was almost always getting hurt or at the very least lost those battles. So Manny has to try to have more exchanges where he starts off the exchanges but more importantly ends the exchanges as well!

Finally, Manny needs to keep a high tempo. The higher the tempo the less time Marquez has to set himself into his defensive position/stance/balance and consequently, Marquez will be in more situations where he is vulnerable.

and yes, I agree that Manny needs to "fix" his positioning as Marquez was always getting the edge there in his last fight.

[Light_Speed]

The bold, well said, as I've been saying, trying to play chess with a chess master was plain stupid. Regardless of how one scored the first two fights, Pacquiao did his thing too, he stood on the attack and didn't give Marquez time to think.

Yeah but I don't think it was a tactical decision specifically for JMM, it's just that Pac got used to fighting guys who either come forward or are stationary (save for the Mosley dud) and using their offense against them. In the last 4 years, Roach turned him into a mover and counter-puncher but now they have to reverse that change and bring the beast back.

[Doctor_Tenma]

Yeah but I don't think it was a tactical decision specifically for JMM, it's just that Pac got used to fighting guys who either come forward or are stationary (save for the Mosley dud) and using their offense against them. In the last 4 years, Roach turned him into a mover and counter-puncher but now they have to reverse that change and bring the beast back.

You could be right, although he seemed dead set on tryin' to show Marquez he wasn't the same fighter, he continued to repeat this throughout the promotion. Some fail to see the change in Pacquiao's approach in the 3rd fight or atleast how distinctive it was from the first two fights, I think maybe they thought it was that close, me personally I didn't think it was. I know Manny has slowed down but I definitely think he does better. With Marquez pushing 40 it's a hard pick to make.

[kiaba360]

You could be right, although he seemed dead set on tryin' to show Marquez he wasn't the same fighter, he continued to repeat this throughout the promotion. Some fail to see the change in Pacquiao's approach in the 3rd fight or atleast how distinctive it was from the first two fights, I think maybe they thought it was that close, me personally I didn't think it was. I know Manny has slowed down but I definitely think he does better. With Marquez pushing 40 it's a hard pick to make.

Does Pac have the endurance/stamina/athleticism needed to pull off the same kind of performance as in the first two fights? We will see.

[Doctor_Tenma]

Even Ariza agrees, he pretty much said "Pacquiao can't get technical or into a chess match with Marquez because he won't win"

[woopwoop]

Even Ariza agrees, he pretty much said "Pacquiao can't get technical or into a chess match with Marquez because he won't win"

He is a strength and conditioning coach lol. He also said on hbo 24/7 of the 3rd fight that not even God can save jmm from getting koed. We all know what happened.

I like Ariza, imo he is the best strength and conditioning coach in the business right now.