DEBATE: Jimmy Deforest's Quotation Regarding Dempsey's Hand Wraps

[HOUDINI563]

Well we have that photo of Dempsey. I see lots of gauze with much less tape. Very similar to how Ali and especially Foreman wrapped their hands.

[travestyny]

Father owned a bicycle shop for 45 years. White bicycle tape did not exist in 1919.

Great. Prove it. Because Charles Samuel says that this was bicycle tape, and he got info from two people in the dressing room.

Prove that he's lying and give his motive.

[travestyny]

Well we have that photo of Dempsey. I see lots of gauze with much less tape. Very similar to how Ali and especially Foreman wrapped their hands.

We aren't talking about what you see. We are talking about what was reported. I gave you the quotations.


I'm taking off for now. Will check back later for your evidence.

[HOUDINI563]

Evidence is that photo of Dempseys ungloved hands. Secondly white bicycle tape did not exist in 1919. Find a bike photo from that time period with white tape on it. You won't find it as it did not exist in 1919. You say it did exist so it should be a simple task to find a photo. Right? Put up or shut up.

[travestyny]

Evidence is that photo of Dempseys ungloved hands. Secondly white bicycle tape did not exist in 1919. Find a bike photo from that time period with white tape on it. You won't find it as it did not exist in 1919. You say it did exist so it should be a simple task to find a photo. Right? Put up or shut up.

You say the evidence is his hand, but then you would have to explain why people at the fight say that his hands were heavily taped while you say his hands were minimally taped. Is everyone against Dempsey, who by most accounts was a good and likeable guy.

Second, you have to explain why Charles Samuel, who specifically thanked Dempsey for helping him out to write the book in which he said Dempsey used bicycle tape, would lie about that.

Third, sending me on a wild goose chase to look at the tape on pictures of bicycles from the 1900’s is absurd when you realize that DeForest says you are wrong about this being ordinary tape, Samuel says you are wrong about this being ordinary tape, and you’ve given no evidence from anyone at this time that this was normal surgical tape.

Maybe you should “put up” some proof instead of just your talk. You already were proven wrong by Willard when you said that tape wouldn’t cause more destruction than the glove. He was taking punches at this time. I’d believe him over you.

Keep in mind he said this BEFORE the fight with Dempsey.

The list of “liars” seems to be growing:

DeForest lying
Charles Samuel lying
Everyone who saw his hands and claimed they were heavily taped lying.

Hmm.

[BattlingNelson]

Father owned a bicycle shop for 45 years. White bicycle tape did not exist in 1919.

This is Emile Aerts in 1919. Tape looks white to me:

[travestyny]

This is Emile Aerts in 1919. Tape looks white to me:

Wow. No idea how you found that...but great find!

[The Old LefHook]

First of all, a monkey suit is not for a monkey and bicycle tape is not for a bicycle. A crowbar has nothing to do with crows.

[travestyny]

First of all, a monkey suit is not for a monkey and bicycle tape is not for a bicycle. A crowbar has nothing to do with crows.

Are you sure? Because I would love to stop collecting pictures of bikes with white tape on them from the early 1900's!!! Seriously.

1913


1920


1921


1924

white bicycle tape did not exist in 1919. Find a bike photo from that time period with white tape on it. You won't find it as it did not exist in 1919. You say it did exist so it should be a simple task to find a photo. Right? Put up or shut up.

Do I have permission to keep talking now?

[billeau2]

White bicycle tape did not exist in 1919. Period.

Just to add here, the bicycle tape that came out subsequent can be found in the Sears Catalogue circa 1930's which had most, if not all common hardware items found at the time. The tape is dark and it is designed to "stay soft" like a tire. This is the exact description for the tape.

If the term was a slang, there was a tape around that even up to my youth was used for stickball bats etc. this was cloth electric tape. One possible theory is that a trainer using tape misnamed this tape as bicycle tape...

Thing is neither tape hardens. When I looked for such a substance I could find nothing. In the source where allegeldly McCoy is using some tape the author is not describing the tape objectively either...he is giving an image to describe the tape... "the tape was like iron." He could have taken poetic license with this description as well.

These are some of the reasons, along with a reason I also tried to explain, namely that the wrap gloves would have an effect on anything used in the wrapping and that certainly there is no thinly wound tape that would cut through that wrap and glove...

These are some reasons why this "tape" is not a reasonable conjecture as far as I can see, as a cause of the damage.

As also said, there may have been another kind of substance, wrapping, tape... but I have yet to see evidence of a hardening tape...whether this be a white, dark, whatever color.

Also: Electrical tape of all colors did exist because of knob and tube wiring which was repaired with electric tape... regardless of color.

https://www.google.com/search?q=knob...hrome&ie=UTF-8