Who are some of the best defensive fighters who didn't use the philly shell?

[billeau2]

Isn't that just the high guard ?, same with Starling, haven't heard it referred to as a specific term.

Thinking about it when boxers are "in their shell all night" it just means they were in the high guard and were inactive not being able to do anything or if a boxer is told to "go into your shell" they go into the high guard but I think it's but more of a quick way of telling someone to go on the defensive, turn into Josh Clottey for a moment, take the punches on the gloves and think / reset than it is an actual term for it.

Dunno if this is what you're referring to or if there was some kinda mix up somewhere.

Dundee used the two interchangably. They could be the same, He also refers to Moore using the High Guard. Phewww! tough one to deconstruct.

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/articl...-of-the-greats

The Peek A Boo is what I am confusing the "shell" with. I got that straight lol.

[NChristo]

Dundee used the two interchangably. They could be the same, He also refers to Moore using the High Guard. Phewww! tough one to deconstruct.

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/articl...-of-the-greats

The Peek A Boo is what I am confusing the "shell" with. I got that straight lol.

Tried looking up where the term Philly Shell comes from and it apparently started with the Fight Night video games and they may have got the idea from George Benton's style, nothing official though.

Can't find any usage of it from before the games though which would would explain some confusion because it's not been a term used through history, just the games way to try and glorify the style by giving it a specific name instead of the bland "Shoulder roll" ?, that's what I'm assuming anyway, try and spice it up a bit to sound better.

There was a create a character mode where you could pick Philly Shell as a style, shoulder roll sounds like something used specific for the defense where as Philly Shell sounds better for staying in that stance all game, sounds more pleasing to kids maybe if that makes sense.

[billeau2]

Tried looking up where the term Philly Shell comes from and it apparently started with the Fight Night video games and they may have got the idea from George Benton's style, nothing official though.

Can't find any usage of it from before the games though which would would explain some confusion because it's not been a term used through history, just the games way to try and glorify Mayweathers style by giving it a specific name instead of the bland "Shoulder roll" ?, that's what I'm assuming anyway, try and spice it up a bit to sound better.

There was a create a character mode where you could pick Philly Shell as a style, shoulder roll sounds like something used specific for the defense where as Philly Shell sounds better for staying in that stance all game, sounds more pleasing to kids maybe if that makes sense.

Its a tough nut... My hesitancy is with one being a position, like..."Peek a boo", and the other being a type of movement that is characterised by defensive, evasive, and counter punching aspects.

But when you described Moore's use of the guard as a cross hand that made it better because it makes sense if there is a natural progression from that to more of the shoulder movements that characterized this style. Moore did both, but for example Foreman uses that guard but not really much of a shoulder roll. Meanwhile Mayweather for example, does not cross guard and does a lot of rolling, so this distinction you made makes sense logically.

Now...if we want to look at technique that is similar and older? We can look at people like JOe Gans who used to great effect the false centerline. Like the shoulder roll the false line puts the shoulder in the way of the head. In the older style guys fought a lot off both feet and when fighting off the back foot and putting that shoulder out it created more time to react and... shoulder movement could create countering opportunities.

Dempsey and the punchers also uses the shoulders in close at square up range. But this was more a general bob and weave. regional names and slight differences probably account for subsequent confusion. We have everything from the way Toney uses the technique as a pure counter punching means... to the way Mayweather uses it defensively.

Finally if this is not confusing enough? The weakness for the "Roll" is punches that can loop around it...and what could a fighter do to counter this weakness that is quite effective? YOU GUESSED IT The Cross Guard! Lol.

[them_apples]

Tried looking up where the term Philly Shell comes from and it apparently started with the Fight Night video games and they may have got the idea from George Benton's style, nothing official though.

Can't find any usage of it from before the games though which would would explain some confusion because it's not been a term used through history, just the games way to try and glorify the style by giving it a specific name instead of the bland "Shoulder roll" ?, that's what I'm assuming anyway, try and spice it up a bit to sound better.

There was a create a character mode where you could pick Philly Shell as a style, shoulder roll sounds like something used specific for the defense where as Philly Shell sounds better for staying in that stance all game, sounds more pleasing to kids maybe if that makes sense.

benton didn't event it, he made a style out of it for sure though, but it was in common usage for a while, a lot of these moves. hell watch Harry kid Matthew fight rocky, it's a more rugged version but he does a lot of stuff Ali does, Duran, etc

[NChristo]

benton didn't event it, he made a style out of it for sure though, but it was in common usage for a while, a lot of these moves. hell watch Harry kid Matthew fight rocky, it's a more rugged version but he does a lot of stuff Ali does, Duran, etc

He obviously didn't invent it but can you name any other early boxer from Philadelphia who used that style as prolifically as him ?, it was an idea from where they may have got the name from.

[ShoulderRoll]

Benny Leonard

Willie Pep

Nicolino Locche

[NChristo-]

Benny Leonard

Willie Pep

Nicolino Locche

Locche used it quite often, just mixed it up with different kinds of defense as well.

[IronDanHamza]

Harold Johnson
Ezzard Charles

[The Old LefHook]

I like a little log cabin defense.

[GhostofDempsey]

Dempsey, Tunney, Pep, Maxie Rosenbloom, Benny Leonard, Robinson, LaMotta, Carlos Ortiz, Jose Napoles, Benitez, Calzaghe, Loma, Ward, Hamed, to name a few.