lennox lewis and George foreman

[QueensburyRules]

- -End of the day, Lewie had some career overlap with the Ks and Foreman, and the only fight we saw was the promotional smoke and mirrors of what most saw as a great fight, Vitali vs Lewie.

The fight literally cut short by a one off cut greatly enhanced by dirty Lewie tactics.

While the fight was terminated to save the public from further gruesome spectacle, we never saw Lewie fight the Ks or Foreman in a fairly promoted and officiated fight. Vitali tapped as a last minute replacement fighter for a troubled promotion riff with dubious dropouts.

Fact: Lewie gave up his 4 planned fights that included the biggest purse of his career, the rematch, retiring officially days before the WBC was to strip him of his last bout.

Most of you think everything is just opinion, but facts are not opinion nor are historical timelines. All serve to add context and perspective as to a potential ranking or prediction of how a fight may transpire.

You chaps have a ways to go in that regard, so time to study up instead of replicating the typical leading face first club fighter fan.

[clemenza]

I will end my part of the discussion now.
I’m not sure if you ever seen the above mentioned fighters live.
With that said I can only comment on George second career because of my age. I didnt see the fight with Holyfield, that was a tough ticket in Atlantic City. But I saw George fight 3 other times down there.
He knocked Gerry Cooney out , by the way pretty decent action in the “ Geeezers at Ceasar’s.”
The other 2 fights was vs Briggs in which you mentioned, very bad decision. I was ringside for the bout vs Lou Savarese, that was a bad decision.
Lou won that fight. I thought George got 2 gift Dec. against Savarese and Axel Shultz bye the way.
So it’s difficult to complain about the Briggs fight.
I was ringside for Lewis vs Mercer,
Go YouTube that fight , you will see Lennox throwing and taking huge punches that night on the undercard of Holyfield vs Czyz at Madison Square Garden.
Lennox had snap on his right hand that night in which would’ve put George to sleep fast.
Unless you’ve seen Lewis live and up close you have ZERO idea of the punching power he had, none.
It’s easy to watch I fight on Tv and say wow that guy can hit. When you about 50-60’feet from the fighters you get a different perspective.
Trust me I saw Lenny as you disgracefully call him quite a few times either vs Grant Golota Briggs Mercer Morrison Holyfield.
Lewis could fight anyone in any era.

[them_apples]

people always talk about size when they talk about Foreman, like he won just because he was big. This is wrong. Foreman was just shy of 6 ft 4 with an 82 reach - he was a good sized heavyweight but not enormously tall. Where Foreman stands out was his incredible strength both physically and mentally. While most guys over 220 are doing it with weights, George was doing it skipping meals and running miles up hills, if that man touched weights he would have been 270 (like in his comeback) and he was an old man by then.

Lewis could hit good but Foreman could hit better. Lewis soaking wet is a tall lanky guy with a tall lanky chin. Foreman as I said, is a concrete bunker. Even if they both hit eachother and hurt eachother, lewis wouldn't recover, Foreman would.

[clemenza]

George was 6’2 225 in his day. Lewis jabs George all night long. Foreman had no lungs. Go watch the Jimmy Young fight. After 18 minutes of boxing he’s done. I hate to tool on the man he was a excellent fighter but he in his early years he was a gas bag. He boxed the inexperience guy he was . Pure puncher no doubt.
I just see this as a horrible matchup.
Double jab by Lennox right hand all night.
Yes George would have his moments early but he would tire.
The comeback George would’ve swelled up like a water ballon and knocked out in 4.
Too much talk about Lewis glass jaw,
The man was dropped twice in his career, and he beat the 10 count in both fights but it was stopped.
The Rahman fight for gods sake he was up at the count of 7 , he’s the Heavyweight champion of the world and he doesn’t to go out on his shield, very bad stoppage.
Like I said in previous posts,
After seeing Lewis live multiple times the guy was legitimate.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Lewis is like a scaled up version of Hearns - he benfited a lot from his size advantage; he was a boxer-puncher; he had a questionable chin. A poor man's Hearns, at least.

Foreman was a ferocious fighter; but if you resisted him, his threat seriously subsided. I dunno how well Lewis' size advantage and boxing ability serves him here. I think his chin is too questionable.

Foreman got beat by men w/ less assets than Lewis, but they had more heart and guile.

[billeau2]

I will end my part of the discussion now.
I’m not sure if you ever seen the above mentioned fighters live.
With that said I can only comment on George second career because of my age. I didnt see the fight with Holyfield, that was a tough ticket in Atlantic City. But I saw George fight 3 other times down there.
He knocked Gerry Cooney out , by the way pretty decent action in the “ Geeezers at Ceasar’s.”
The other 2 fights was vs Briggs in which you mentioned, very bad decision. I was ringside for the bout vs Lou Savarese, that was a bad decision.
Lou won that fight. I thought George got 2 gift Dec. against Savarese and Axel Shultz bye the way.
So it’s difficult to complain about the Briggs fight.
I was ringside for Lewis vs Mercer,
Go YouTube that fight , you will see Lennox throwing and taking huge punches that night on the undercard of Holyfield vs Czyz at Madison Square Garden.
Lennox had snap on his right hand that night in which would’ve put George to sleep fast.
Unless you’ve seen Lewis live and up close you have ZERO idea of the punching power he had, none.
It’s easy to watch I fight on Tv and say wow that guy can hit. When you about 50-60’feet from the fighters you get a different perspective.
Trust me I saw Lenny as you disgracefully call him quite a few times either vs Grant Golota Briggs Mercer Morrison Holyfield.
Lewis could fight anyone in any era.

people always talk about size when they talk about Foreman, like he won just because he was big. This is wrong. Foreman was just shy of 6 ft 4 with an 82 reach - he was a good sized heavyweight but not enormously tall. Where Foreman stands out was his incredible strength both physically and mentally. While most guys over 220 are doing it with weights, George was doing it skipping meals and running miles up hills, if that man touched weights he would have been 270 (like in his comeback) and he was an old man by then.

Lewis could hit good but Foreman could hit better. Lewis soaking wet is a tall lanky guy with a tall lanky chin. Foreman as I said, is a concrete bunker. Even if they both hit eachother and hurt eachother, lewis wouldn't recover, Foreman would.

I think you both make great points. But lets be totally consistent here and eliminate the second coming of George from the equation. It is a more apt comparison to take both guys at their prime... because they are easier to compare. The size of each man is a point worth arguing...You can certainly see that Lennox was a thin kid next to Tyson who grew into a nice frame down the road...Even fought super heavy I think.

Regarding George, it is true that he could have fought at a heavier weight and I would argue that he was at least as physically strong and big as Lewis...Weight is one aspect of size.

The other factors are things like who was mentally tougher? George could be hurt that way, and I remember seeing times where Lewis did not look like he was ready to fight, just did not look mentally prepared. Lewis was a stand up fighter and did not really use a lot of improvisation. A clue to this is when he talks to Joe Rogan about meeting Tyson and seeing in Tyson a guy who studied the fighters and "modelled himself on fighters of the past." My take on this was to assume that Lewis saw himself as a different type of fighter.

George did things, like move his opponent around for position, guage distance, etc in a fluid manner that made him such a threat. My own opinion being that Liston was better...because Foreman had been taught some of these techniques by Liston and Liston as a finisher was imo perhaps the best in heavyweight history as a finisher.

Lewis did not have this quality, to the same degree, in his DNA...HOlyfield said it best when, after he obviously lost that first fight to Lennox, scolded Lewis saying "why didn't you finish me then?" Lewis could battle...as he did against Vitalie, and through sheer skill punished many fighters, but against a similar skilled opponent he was apt to be more conservative...

[billeau2]

George was 6’2 225 in his day. Lewis jabs George all night long. Foreman had no lungs. Go watch the Jimmy Young fight. After 18 minutes of boxing he’s done. I hate to tool on the man he was a excellent fighter but he in his early years he was a gas bag. He boxed the inexperience guy he was . Pure puncher no doubt.
I just see this as a horrible matchup.
Double jab by Lennox right hand all night.
Yes George would have his moments early but he would tire.
The comeback George would’ve swelled up like a water ballon and knocked out in 4.
Too much talk about Lewis glass jaw,
The man was dropped twice in his career, and he beat the 10 count in both fights but it was stopped.
The Rahman fight for gods sake he was up at the count of 7 , he’s the Heavyweight champion of the world and he doesn’t to go out on his shield, very bad stoppage.
Like I said in previous posts,
After seeing Lewis live multiple times the guy was legitimate.

Damn straight about the count in the Rahman fight. I think Lewis had a bit of trouble with smaller guys at times as compared to bigger guys, where as Foreman loved a smaller man to bully around lol. Mercer, McCall and Holy gave him trouble as compared to Briggs, Grant, etc. So in this match up? lewis likes the size comparability more than George, imo.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Damn straight about the count in the Rahman fight. I think Lewis had a bit of trouble with smaller guys at times as compared to bigger guys, where as Foreman loved a smaller man to bully around lol. Mercer, McCall and Holy gave him trouble as compared to Briggs, Grant, etc. So in this match up? lewis likes the size comparability more than George, imo.

that's a good point. Lewis gets a lot of credit for his Boxing ability. One, that's due to heavyweight generally lacking reputable pure-boxing skills. So, the bar is set pretty low. But Lewis also liked to use his jab against smaller men. It was a fail-safe path to victory... except for those damn judges. I don't think he thought the Holyfield and Mercer fights would be as close as they were. But when people talk about him like he's the heavweight Pernell Whitaker based on his fights w/ guys like Tua, they clearly have no shame in making exaggerations.

Foreman is a lot more dangerous than anyone Lewis fought. And he was great at cutting off the ring, but Lewis might be able to survive the intial onslaught and keep George at bay for the remained of the fight. George had no Plan B, and no pacing.

This is a tough one. Lewis is bigger and much more skilled than Lyle, but Foreman is much more dangerous than Tua or Mercer.... let alone Rahman and McCall.

Both are skilled fighters whose skills are often exaggerated. And both were known to give over surprisingly easily. Let me say it again, this is a tough one.

[clemenza]

Damn straight about the count in the Rahman fight. I think Lewis had a bit of trouble with smaller guys at times as compared to bigger guys, where as Foreman loved a smaller man to bully around lol. Mercer, McCall and Holy gave him trouble as compared to Briggs, Grant, etc. So in this match up? lewis likes the size comparability more than George, imo.

It’s actually a breath of fresh air out here to have someone have a debate on a topic and not just say , “ oh he’s a bum , he sucks or something on those lines.
Great Rebuttal billeau2.
Spoken like a gentleman. 👍

[QueensburyRules]

- -Big George was never knocked down in Lenny's era much less getting one punched to Bolvia .

Biggest difference in prime George and 40 yr old George was full hydration, full jab, and full conditioning without any concerns about cutting weight.

And mentally in the right space calling his own shots without any interference from DKing.