Can we have an objective discussion of GGG?

[jqSide]

Boxers that ducked/ducking GGG

1---Felix sturm - wouldn't fight him for over 2 years when GGG was mandatory.

2---Peter quillin - said he will only fight for the may-pac kind of money, lol + he flew to Haymon to avoid GGG

3---Sergio martinez - "His promoter said that "no way I am putting him with this monster", GGG kept calling him out after his U.S. debut after every fight

4---Miguel cotto - ducked his mandatory(GGG) twice by fighting Geale and Canelo

5---Julio cesar chavez jr - Turned down 12mil offer by TR

6---Saul alvarez - Avoiding his mando(GGG). Thinks that he is fighting at the weight-class of 155, as there is no such thing as a "155 weight-class" ,he is pretending to be not in the MW division because of GGG.There are 17 divisions just pick one, if you can't make 154 then you are a MW, simple.

7---Carl froch - After calling GGG out then when GGG accepted ,he backed down and now he is retired after making all the fuss, + GGG was calling him for more than a year so no excuses for "retiring".

8---Andrea Ward - The diva of the 168lb division don't want to travel or meet the a-side GGG in a catchweight so he can become a good boy and get ktfo. Was willing to goto 160 for Floyd but when GGG said 164, Ward ducked + he was fine when Dawson came down a whole division for him but wont move half a division for GGG, smh

9---Billy joe Saunders - Even before winning the WBO title from Lee his fear of Golovkin was as biright as day this is just one of many interviews(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJuwAz-ekoQ), then after winning it he priced himslef out at 6 mil$

10---Hassaan ndam njikam -When Hassaan was WBO champ, he was ordered to a purse bid to face Golovkin no less than two times and he was a no show each time.

11---Darren Barker - When Barker defeated Geale to become IBF champ, his promoter openly said that Barker will fight any1 except GGG


GGG already beat 10 top10, including 4 world champs, 16 defenses so 4 wins more to b-hop's record, never even been down in 400 fights, Amateur legend 345-5, olympic silver medal, world amateur gold, AND finally ducked by almost everyone.

Which is why it's so stupid to compare resumes between a guy who is being ducked like a plague with someone who isn't. Who ducked Ward, for example? Even Bute wanted a piece of him. Name one fighter that was/is avoided like GG?

[13777]

The beginning of the noteworthy ducking fiascos started with Julio Cesar Chavez Jr

Felix Sturm, Sebastian Zbik, Hassan Ndam Njikam, Peter Quillin, Anthony Mundine, Sergio Martinez ducked GGG long before Butterbean Jr.

[therealpugilist]

Hopefully GGG gets to fight Canelo and BJS within the next year to unify the division and then move up and test himself at 168. That should put most of his doubters to bed.

***** im waiting to get tucked in and all i get are Willie Monroe and Dominic Wades of the world

the talent is there, he just needs to fight the right fighters to get him over the hump

[Oldschool5]

Some boxers are just like most of the youth nowadays, nobody wants to do anything hard! Nobody wants to take a chance! It's all about me and if I mess up it's somebody else's fault. Back in the day its was just lace'em up and let'em fly!

[Beercules]

I hate you so much Gennady Golovkin

[Tony Trick-Pony]

Gennady Golovkin has one of the most decorated Amateur careers in boxing when it comes to active fighters that crossed over and are at the top. Clearly guys like Lomachenko and Rigondeaux have far more illustrious amateur careers, and you have your noteworthy talents that had obtained Gold like Andre Ward and Oleksandr Usyk that are undefeated and doing great professionally but just for those who GGG isn't that talented, typically being an Olympic Silver Medalist and world Games Gold Medalist says a lot for your technical skills.

35-0 Professionally, 32 Knockouts. Highest Knockout ratio of any Middleweight champion in boxing history. Looking over his career, it's hard to tell now but at the time he had fought his opponents he looks to have had 7 or 8 wins (and all knockouts) over top 10 opponents.

As for some of his noteworthy attributes, he's great at shifting, the lost art of shifting...as Jack Dempsey would say. He has thunderous power. He works the body as well as anyone in the business. His chin has seemed rather granite notoriously never having been to the canvas in over 350 amateur bouts and 35 professional. His cardio also seems fantastic, he drowns people in the later rounds. He's showcased quite the impressive battering ram of a jab, which seemed to silence some critics for his lack of utilization of it before the Lemeiux fight.

The criticisms...Oh, how common do we hear "who he beat" or "he hasn't beat nobody though" as some thinly veiled excuse to try and discredit a fighter that isn't from North or South America so commonly from the boxing communities. Well, we've clarified he's beaten more top 10 MW's than any other MW currently fighting but if that's not good enough for you allow me to take a different approach.

The Ducking: Call it what you will, explain the "business" and "political" nuances all you want as if no one but you understands. It's hard to beat the big names when they all won't fight you because "you're too much of a risk, and not enough of a reward."

The beginning of the noteworthy ducking fiascos started with Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. He was offered 7million dollars to fight GGG for the title and declined to sign the contract ( Golovkin signed it). He was still a Middleweight at the time.

Sergio Martinez, avoided GGG for quite a while despite him being the clear and away contender. Once he was injured and came back it was quoted saying "Martinez won't face an animal like Golovkin"

Miguel Cotto, Cotto got the lottery in this fight thanks to Martinez ducking GGG. Miguel went on to duck GGG (pretty much tradition at MW now) and took a fight with Daniel Geale getting out of a contract where GGG was the mandatory challenge...then yet again weaseled out of a contract obligating him to fight GGG to cashout against Canelo similar to how Martinez did with Cotto.

Billy Joel Saunders, has been verbal about not wanting to fight Golovkin. He also to Eubank Jr ( Golovkin would knock me and you out in the same night). He's now been open to taking the fight only recently but who knows.

Now...I won't say Canelo is ducking yet, but he's certainly quacking like one. Won't take the fight unless it's at 155lbs. Finagled a fight against Amir Khan who's not even a middleweight for his title defense and avoided fighting GGG. Now all sorts of speculation that Canelo won't fight GGG next, that he needs to grow into the weight class ( he has the belts....what a joke). Del La Hoya won't say that GGG is next either.

Every top fighter for the most part in GGG's division, every big name you heckle him for not beating has pretty much avoided him like the plague...and why because he's not that good?

The sparring sessions GGG is known for killing guys in the Gym. Be it Cesar Chavez Jr or Sergei Kovalev. He has also sparred with guys like Canelo Alvarez vs Shane Mosley.

The Call outs people love to harass GGG for calling Andre Ward out at 164lbs when he offered to fight Carl Froch at 168lbs( maybe he should have fought Ward at 168lbs, a fight I think Ward would win). Which is kind of weird to me, your Middleweight champion is trying to make fights happen against greats in other divisions, not because he wants to but because he's been avoided by everyone in his division because of fear (I'll call it that, you can call it good business decisions). He's been stating the entire time he wants to unify all the MW' titles. He was willing to fight Floyd at 154lbs...Floyd never responded to that directly he only said "I'm not a Middleweight, when will he move up? I'd fight GGG" but he pretends like the 154lb offer was never made. People use that offer to then say "he'll fight Floyd at 154lbs, but not Canelo at 155lbs" Who knows, I think the general consensus is what Canelo is doing as a MW champion is a bit ****ty with the whole Caneloweight but I won't be surprised if Golovkin obliges him at 155lbs or they meet somewhere in the middle.

The SizeEveryone likes to say how big GGG is even though when he fought Lemiux he was 165lbs and Lemieux was 175lbs....Which is what Canelo usually weighs the night of the fight 175lbs...Not that it should matter if you pass regulation and you make weight, then that's that. I just want to point out the hypocrisy.

In parting, is it really so ridiculous to so many fans that you're a "golovtard" if you think he's one of the best boxers alive today? Clearly he's one of the greatest talents, with one of the great records in the game...and I'm not sure what he does to garner so much of the Americans and Latin Americans hate, does it make you feel insecure people think he's so great? We are talking about a fighter who has spent half his career being ducked by the top fighters in his division and fans have the gumption to say "but who he beat, he ain't beat nobody"

Anyone who rises to the top will have haters. It's unavoidable. No matter what you prove, not everyone is ever going to be on your side. No fighter has ever saturated the entire boxing fan base. What you can do is impress the majority and I actually think Golovkin has done that.

Time period has to be taken into account with every fighter's career. It truly effects all careers. If Golovkin were to come up in the '80s, things would definitely be different. No matter how well he may or may not have done, one thing is clear. We would have a better gauge of how great he truly is. Back then, there were just two middleweight titles. And most guys fought each other out of pride. The ducking these days has grown to an insane level. Fighters now can win one of the many trinkets, claim to be a world champion and stay safe fighting subpar opponents. Back then, that was not possible.

Golovkin is about to get either Canelo or Jacobs next most likely. But his resume isn't the garbage haters try to claim. He not only beat lots of contenders and champions who weren't chumps going in. He steamrolled them. Golovkin deserves his praise and is about to earn more.

[just the facts]

Which is why it's so stupid to compare resumes between a guy who is being ducked like a plague with someone who isn't. Who ducked Ward, for example? Even Bute wanted a piece of him. Name one fighter that was/is avoided like GG?

Who ducked Ward? Cmon !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Scipio2009]

I hope the mods ban you for speaking logic on NSB. You should know that talk of this nature is a faux pas.

But yes, expecting a guy to be in an even fight when he receives high levels of adoration from the boxing community should seem like the obvious. But GGG gets a pass because he wants the belts that virtually every boxing fan mocks in any other discussion.

GGG's only problem appears to be his team. They don't seem to have the skills to make big fights happen. Or the same argument that is applied to Oscar and GBP being unwilling to throw their cash cow in with a serious challenge, can be applied to K2.

I wouldn't even say that; I earnestly believe that K2, after betting on a 28-year old 18-0 fighters, have no real idea of how good Golovkin actually is that they are so utterly spooked of the notion that they may have a lemon that they've refused to risk anything until Golovkin locks in at least one massive payday for them. You put Golovkin in with a guy like Lara, and he gets beat, K2 is left with a 34-year old fighter with no core buying audience anywhere, still on their books.

Oscar may be unwilling to do certain things, but Alvarez took that consideration out of their hands; he's fought Trout and Lara (two fights that no one but him actually wanted him to take) and jumped in with Floyd. Alvarez isn't going to do things that don't make business sense, but its not like he's going to let anyone push him out of fights that he wants and are on his terms.

[13777]

Here's an interesting and overlooked GGG challenger...

Zaurbek Baysangurov: Trained by Abel Sanchez. Former unified titleholder.
Wins over Michel Soro, Lukas Konecny, Marco Antonio Rubio. I think he's retired but he's 3 years younger then GGG and won his last matches.